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*jawdrop*
Thank god, I’ll be fine. I’m an Anti-theist, not atheist. And this letter pretty much sumarises why. I’m also safe, due to being on an unconnected landmass, and on a different continent
Thank god im an atheist.
Thank Christ for Atheists!
Thank heavens I’m an atheist!
What I love is the “Atheists are the reason for the crime in this country”. Statistically speaking, only about .21% of the prison population is atheist (vs. 8-16% in the regular population), whereas 83% of the prison population are Judeo-Christian. (and these are not made up statistics, I actually researched! http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm)
I was just interested to know how you came to the conclusion that the atheists and judeo-christian people made 105 % of the prison population.
Um, me thinks you missed the decimal point in .21% there, hola… but you get 1/2 a point for the attempt to snark!
.21% + 83% = 83.21%
Even if you realized there was a decimal point in front of the percentage of atheists in prison you still got your math wrong.
83+21=104 not 105
Fail
I think the only thing these comments prove are how behind our country is academically.
Man, this is sad.
It means the missing percent is some other religion or has some other form of belief.
1997, Federal Bureau of Prisons, 0.21% of inmates were atheist. Notice the ——-> . <———
The majority were some form of Christianity, with Muslims and other religions making up the rest. People really should back things up with facts.
I.E. http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Percentage_of_atheists
83% + 0.21% = 83.21%
You missed the decimal point, I think. (Although 83 + 21 = 104 not 105)
um , he said 0.21% were atheist not 21%
i failed too. she said*
It’s interesting that detractors can’t learn to read as that is POINT 21%, not 21%, she’s only accounted for 83.21%.
It looks like you missed the decimal point in .21% in their comment.
Hey I think you missed the decimal point in .21%
@hola:Smart little Boy!!! I think u need to go back on basic maths!! Oh, i forgot, u don’t do math, u believe in god, he will surely pass on the calculations, from Heaven
Hey, your math is off.
See? I can be completely redundant, too!
Actually, if you looked there is a decimal point in front of the 21%
he said .21%, not 21%!
Oh yes, because everything you read on the internet is 100% true!!! Holysmoke website is written by those whose “facts” favor what they want to believe.
Irony is not what “facts” the writer spews, but in what she actually says. Who cares about facts at this point??
Those statistics are confirmed by the Department of Justice… just so ya know.
ok… 83.21% were accounted for… judeo-Christians and athiests… there are other religions out there that make up the rest of the population… you have to look at the whole picture.. its not just a two sided coin people
guys shut the hell up about god damn percentages! no one cares! shut up!
I think that the writer of this isn’t trying to say that the atheists COMMIT the crimes, just that they CAUSE the crimes. They’ve made a point of taking the religion out of schools to the point where a person practically can’t independently read a bible in class without being persecuted. Because of this, people grow up without religion, and without a concept of consequences, so they go on to commit crimes without feeling guilty. In this way, atheists have caused the crimes without actually committing them.
retards like you and the woman who wrote that letter are the reason the church is dying.
Separation of church and state. Public schools are state-funded, so they cannot legally support any religion.
However, it is legal to independently read a bible (or any other religious text) in school, so long as you don’t disrupt or ignore classes. Claiming Christians (roughly 80% of the US population) are being persecuted is a bit laughable, especially in light of the fact that every President has been Christian, as well as the staggering majority of Congressmen.
Morality is not exclusive to religion, an invention of it, or even a natural result of it. After all, many of the worlds’ most awful people have used religion (usually Christianity or Islam) to justify their deeds. Hitler, Fred Phelps, Osama bin Laden… etc.
And if one grows up without religion, commits a crime and is convicted, they would be an atheist in prison. They would not be one of the 83% that identify as Christian in prisons.
Atheism does not cause crime. In fact, since most atheists believe that life is all you get & is to be cherished and not wasted in prison or being a social outcast, they tend less toward crime. Projection is a nasty thing, it is.
amen!
this is not true many people in my classes read bibles independently
Right, because religion has always been the responsibility of SCHOOLS to teach. Isn’t that what church is for? Or have I been completely misled all these years?
Faith comes from the home and the community, not the government or schools. And I believe prayer is not present in schools because not everyone prays the same. That’s what it means to have freedom of religion. What prayer should all our youth be forced to participate in, hm? What faith gets to decide that one?
No, your saying that atheists have no sense of right a or wrong and so therefore commit crimes. You have essentially “undone” your whole argument. But your are however completely wrong. Atheism teaches us that we have just this life, and we should spend it as best we can. Not literally teach but I assume you know what I am talking about. This bring me onto the fact that most major crimes, terrorism and such like, are committed for religious reasons and generally hold the torch in “guilt-free” crimes as religious people have a habit of believing in another life and therefore have the drive to throw away this one in jail.
A bit of an over-generalization, at least on the crime front. I grant that many *many* wars have been fought for “religious” reasons. I have to use quotes there, though. If you think about it, let’s say I want you to go to war for me. I want the land of the neighboring country. Good soil, nice tasty cows, oh, and lots of gold. Anyhow, I need to convince you to fight a complete stranger to fulfill my desires, which by the way, you won’t get any of that land for your self. (Common held fact, I think it’s valid, that the ancient Sanskrit word for war literally means “The desire for more cows.”) OK, so how am I gonna do it? Ask nicely? Or give you a reason? Tell you your enemy hates your god. That’ll get you really riled up, especially if you’re a devout believer. And then maybe promise you something out of your belief system, like eternal life, absolution for your sins. OK, now I’ve really got you sold.
My point: wars like the Crusades, probably the best example of “Christian” warfare, aren’t necessarily about the faith itself. On their way to “liberate” the Holy Land, the Crusaders managed to sack Constantinople, a Christian city held by a rival group. This was not about God…just gold and glory. With a religious “spin”, to make it palatable, even popular. The leaders are using the faith of others to manipulate them into fighting their wars.
Before we chalk this all up to religious stuff, post-Enlightenment, we’ve found plenty of other things to fight a war for. Like a War to End All Wars (literally, World War I was believed by many at the time to be the last great conflict, and then we’d be done with war.) Or to advance the cause of [fill in governmental system here...democracy? freedom? justice?]. Doesn’t mean those virtues/causes/systems don’t exist. It just means some people will use whatever they can to manipulate others.
A faith that preaches things like “Love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you” and “Love your neighbor as yourself” will have a hard time justifying a war in the name of that Messiah. There are those who claim to be Christians, and those who follow for real. And even those latter ones screw it up on a regular basis. But there are many who are willing to twist a legitimate faith for illegitimate purposes.
And just so you know, I don’t think you have to have faith to have morals. For what it’s worth. My faith doesn’t require that people believe for them to be good.
David, that was truly beautiful.
The fact that non-faith related disputes were and are the real basis for alleged “religious” wars is just one of the reasons that so many people are disillusioned with organized religions. The mere fact that the masses (still) could be fooled so easily is frightening.
As is the twisted thinking (and I use the term loosely) of the writer of that Letter to the Editor and “Church Kid.” Fundamentalists tend to be more mental than fun.
Religion is not the only way someone can learn about right and wrong. Most people can learn that from their parents or other, secular sources. Did you grow up in an abusive family or something? Also, laws (and the consequences of breaking them) are there in the first place to enforce moral ideas. I think you’re reaching a bit – more than a bit – in saying that taking religion out of schools is the reason there is crime.
So what you and the stupid c**t is saying is that because I don’t take my kids to church or we don’t pratice some orm of religion that they are are going to grow up and commit crimes? How retarded can you holy rollers be!?!? Religion is what is screwing up this country. Everyone has to bring their “God” into everything. I don’t mind that it says “In god we trust” on our money or “Under god” in the pledge of allegiance but it seems like this whole religion thing is getting out of control. Those of us who are atheists don’t stomp your balls in the dirt for believing in god. So, for the sake of all of us who don’t want to hear you preach like a sissy alter boy, shut the hell up if you don’t know what your talking about!
Shut up. You must think you’re really big using all those grown-up words, huh? Sorry to break it to you, but the poster you’re cyber-screaming at was simply expressing their opinion about this item on FRIGGIN’ FRIENDS OF IRONY.COM! An lol website. So, for the sake of all sanity just shut your piehole.
Yes, you really do “stomp”, who said prayer was a Christian thing. All people pray, whether they call it meditation, prayer or something else. You and every other atheist don’t even get the fact that your beliefs are a religion and a very dangerous one. It leads to narcissism, nihilism, and perpetuated by those who hate.
“Religion is poison” -Mao Tse-tung. He was the 20th century’s most prolific mass-murderer. He made Stalin and Pol Pot look like schoolboys.
Every oppressive government in the world has sought to eliminate prayer, think about it. Why would they care? It is about control and atheists are buying into it and helping to expand the oppression.
We need to be careful of generalizations here. Not all atheists are hateful people, just as all Christians aren’t loving (even though we’re supposed to be).
And the first European settlers came to the US in many cases to get freedom from oppressive governments which *were* (at least in name) religious. Religion can be a force for oppression, as well as for freedom. We need to be sure we are promoting the latter, not the former.
I do believe that Christ is the answer (and it’s not a stupid question…), and that all need Him for salvation, but we need to be careful with divisive language and generalizations. You won’t win souls for Christ by insulting them and calling hateful dictators.
Just because somebody doesn’t believe in anything, it doesn’t automatically follow that they think that nobody else should. I would like you to at least attempt to explain how not believing is particularly dangerous; you have no logic to back up your examples, other than an incidental quote. It’s also ironic considering that many atheists are turned off from religion specifically because they feel it pushy and oppressive, people being instructed, ordered, even coerced into believing a particular way, and so they don’t wish to do the same thing themselves.
As far as oppressive governments, think of theocracies for a moment. How is a person supposed to argue against some madman claiming that it is the will of God/Yahweh/Allah/Odin/Steve the Magnificent that the people on the other side of the mountains should be exterminated and their land taken?
Read the Bible, you’ll find numerous examples of religion being used to justify the destruction of entire cities and tribes. Read a historical textbook, and learn how religion has factored into the Crusades, the Reconquista, the 30 Years War, the English Civil War, and so on and so forth.
And with you mentioning various dictators, I will take the invitation and declare immunity to Godwin’s Law: Hitler specifically portrayed himself as a Messiah-figure, ready to lead the chosen people (Aryans, whoever they are) out of the bondage of their oppressors (Jews/Communists) to their new Promised Land i.e. Lebensraum.
I am not saying that religion is in and of itself an evil thing. I am saying that its application to human affairs has been far from entirely innocent and beneficial.
Athiest are in general very peaceful people who believe in right and wrong. Just because they do not believe in a higher power does not make them amoral.
Athiests are more tolerant than most religions and will not diss anyone who does believe in a god. They are not nillists or narcissist.
But you see, here’s the problem…generalizations. You can’t tell me ALL atheists are more tolerant anymore than I can say religious people have better morals. I have know some very tolerant atheists, and some VERY intolerant ones. And I know some very tolerant religious people, and some very intolerant. You can’t make a blanket statement either way.
Just remember, kids. Generalizations are always bad.
Now go out there and believe goddamn it! You better believe in God or else we religious will have to force you hateful, oppressive Atheists to believe for your own good!
WTF?
Okay religion does not create people free from crime nor does a lack of a religious background make someone prone to crime! It is absurd to believe that someones beliefs influence the amount of people that are being mentioned to go into a life of crime. Atheist have done nothing wrong they people who go on these rants are the real problem.
Actually, the most atheistic nations suffer the least amount of crime. Take Norway and Sweden for example. You can think atheism causes crime, but the facts don’t support the notion and indeed show an opposite trend; the more religious a society, the higher their violent crime rates. There’s obviously numerous other factors to take into account, such as socio-economics, racial issues, etc. It is enough however to throw some light on the absurdity of religiously motivated people claiming atheism itself causes crime.
People don’t need to believe in some kind of higher being to have a conscience. JEEZ!
No religion doesn’t mean no consequences. No religion means no religion.
Are we a nation of toddlers?
Yes, this IS a nation of toddlers, to be arguing about religion any way . :>
I’m an atheist and I’ve never felt a particular urge to go on a mad knifing spree then go home and watch TV until the police catch up with me… And nowhere does it say in any of the major religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism etc) does it say it’s ok to kill another person because they don’t believe in the same god.
So it’s the schools that are having children and raising them in a morality-free household? When did it become OK in America to blame schools for EVERYTHING and let parents off the hook for raising their own children to avoid crime?
Furthermore, if religion is so important in preventing crime to the point you think it should be put back in schools, WHY is it that 83% of the prison population is Christian? THEY obviously got enough religion to become Christian. If religion had crime-stopping powers, the statistics would be reversed and 83% of the prison population would be Godless atheists and Christians would represent POINT21%.
Constant, consistent, attentive, loving parenting prevents crime, with or without religion.
What’s more ironic is the fact that prayer was taken out of school because christians thought it would be offensive to non-christians. The atheists don’t care. Not any of the ones I’ve met.
Um, growing up non-religious, group prayer was very awkward and demeaning. I mean how can you possibly think that kids who don’t believe aren’t attacked by those who do? What I don’t understand is why people who claim to be Christians seem to have the least understanding of what the man actually preached.
Can’t we all seriously let it go? It’s just a picture. And there are more religions then just athesim that don’t believe in your God. It is very uncomfortable to study the bible whilst in school, because you don’t believe in any of that stuff, and being an atheist, I would hate to read about your God. I’m sorry but not everyone is super religious. Just because the main religion is christian/catholic, that does NOT mean we all have to study it. Just having to study bibles and crap in school means a lot of adults would drop their kids out, people would start skipping school.
This is not meant to hurt people nor make people angry, but can’t you just leave your religion to yourself, instead of trying to change everyone?
If that were true, then why don’t the atheists grow up “without a concept of consequences?”
how a certain group of people cause crimes all on their own. that is very discriminatory. One of the main reasons they took prayer out of public schools is so that all religious beliefs could be accomodated and not just those of catholics/ christians, which by the way aren’t even the majority anymore. people are free to do whatever they like even if it means reading a bible in class as long as it is not taking the place of their studies, and if they don’t even like it that much that is why they have catholic schools!!!! and with all the rules and concequences they enforce in schools, how dare you pretend that catholic religion and the way of life is the only way you can have morals. so why don’t you quit being so “self-righteous” and ignorant and realize that you are not superior, just different.
yes, that may be the statistics of the population AFTER they became prisoners. How many of that 83% went in as athiests or agnostics and became “born again” christians. And Jessica, one day I hope you can thank heaven…
Making stuff up is not really a valid argument.
*round of applause*
Well, 72% of all statistics are made up on the spot…
You have my dad’s name. Give it back.
But you didn’t consider the relativ percentage.
You have to have the number of Atheist in the total population for this to make sense. Over 86% of the American population is christian in some way but only 83% of the inmates are christian.
I really think the article sucks and has no logic what so ever, but your point isn’t that good either. Sources http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States#Religion
Actually they did cover relative percentages. They state that 0.21% of prison population is athiests RELATIVE to the 8-16% outside of prison. Using your statistic that puts 83% of christians in prison population and 86% out side. So this puts it all in place. Christians follow the standard distribution and you would expect to see that many christians in prisons but you would also expect 8-16% of athiests in prison which you do not.
They were not saying that christians were more likely to be jailed but that athiests were less likely to be jailed. Which they did very nicely.
You can find the lack of logic explained here by your lack of logic.
As for my feelings on the news article. Ignore it, your country is founded upon these things you guys (used) to like (before you started giving them all up in fear) called rights or freedoms. Such as the freedom of speech. So keep writing to newspapers and keep posting on blogs and never let anyone tell you what should and shouldn’t be said.
P.S. Not to bash or anything but the entire religion industry has no logic what so ever.
That 86% is from 1990, it was 76.5% in 2001. If the percentage continued to decrease at the same rate, it would be below 70% now. I was unable to access the first website to see when the 83% statistic came from, but it is likely that it came from the past ten years, not two decades ago. Therefore, there is a higher percentage of Christians in prisons than in the general population. Though if the 83% statistic did come from the 90s, then I withdraw my argument.
However, since such a small percentage of the U.S. population identify themselves as atheists (most simply say no religion), only between .3% and .5% according to that, the .21% is not really that small. That point isn’t so great for saying that atheist do not commit a lot of crime.
Though, being agnostic myself, I’m inclined against any sort of violence or crime, because really, if there is no god to help people out when they need it, all we really have is humanity. If I’m not going to be a good person, I can’t really expect others to be good people either. I’d like to believe that people are inherently (or at least pressured by law and culture into being) good. Overall, terrible letter.
You are all looking at this wrong… When you take a population and compare to to another population you have to reset the percentages.
example:
There are 80% Christians and 20% Atheists in America (100%) and there are 1000 people in America.
100 of those people (at random) go to prison.
Now when you get to prison you have to reset the value and fill in the blanks. 90% of the 100 people in a prison are Christian and 10% are Atheist (100%).
If there are 90% Christians in prison of population 100 and in America 80% Christians in 1000 people it is completely logical to assume that more Christians where sent to prison in 1000 people than Atheists in 1000 people.
Its very simple, come on.
Great. Now all we need is a syn-theist.
Me? I’m an aghumanist: I’m undecided on whether humans exist.
omg thts BRILLIANT!!!
Im a dyslexic insomniac agnostic. I stay awake all night wondering if there is a dog.
LMAO! You made my day!
I love you, Taggart. T_T
What is that supposed to mean, Captain Confusing?
I got it. Don’t bash people because you don’t understand, you end up looking like an idiot.
dyslexics get letters mixed up
insomniacs cant sleep
and agnostics dont know if god is real but dont know if god isnt real
Wrong post. scroll up more.
Thank god im an atheist, id hate to be in a religion associated with people this cynical and blind…
Haahahahahah!!!!! Double irony. Now you’re as blind and cynical as the people you accuse. Isn’t the world lovely?
So somebody reads a letter on the Friends of Irony website and comes to the conclusion based on what they read that the writer is cynical and blind and you call that accusation? I call it reading comprehension. And how does finding an author to be cynical and blind cause the READER to then become cynical and blind? Please think your comment through. Oh, and, yes, the world IS lovely!!!
Why are you thanking god if your an Atheist?
Observation win.
Anti-theism is not a view on the existence of a deity, it is an opinion of deities, if you are an anti-theist and don’t believe in god you are still an atheist, it is possible to be a Catholic Anti-theist, it just means you believe in God but dislike the fact there is a god. Your comment therefore make no sense.
While I am not very offended by most of the article, “atheists are the reason crime is rampant” really caught my attention as to what a moron this author is. First of all, religion is the leading cause of death. Has been for thousands of years. Jews, Christians, Catholics, and Muslims all going at it because God said it was a good idea. As a matter of fact if religion didn’t exist, we wouldn’t be fighting a war in Iraq. The more indulged you are in your religion, the more you believe that “Thou Shalt Not Kill” is negotiable.
And, if you still think that religion is all good, do a little research on Jim Jones and his 918 victims. Here we have nearly 1,000 who trusted Reverend Jim Jones and what does he do? He poisons them with cyanide. It took 909 people lining up for suicide for them to realize “Hey, with all these dead bodies, maybe I shouldn’t drink the concoction”.
@Aqp: Oh, quite to the contrary: many of Jim Jones followers tried to not drink the Kool-Aide, and they were forced to by other members. There are recordings of children crying while their parents forced the Kool-Aide down their throats, with Jones preaching in the background.
They drank Flavor aid
It was Flavor-Aid, NOT Kool Aid! Poor Kool Aid always gets the bum rap for this!
“because God said it was a good idea”
Untrue. It’s not because God said so (actually, most religions are against killing and war), it’s the psychos that think thir view of the world is the only one correct view and everyone with different situation should die asap. There are nutters with twisted views on their own belief everywhere, including among atheists, and they are the leading cause of wars.
Yeah, put isn’t a crack job saying ‘God said it’ pretty much the same thing? If you told people that god says this, there’s a big chance that they’ll believe you because they’re so scared of “God”.
And don’t forget, God also wanted Bush to go to war. There’s about 100,000 more (both sides included) dead in the name of God.
Sweety, we’ve been fighting the muslims long before Bush was born to pin this war on. We were fighting them pretty much since the islamic muslim came into being…even before this country was stolen from the indians and forced into a Christian government.
Why do people not see the irony over letting their emotions get twisted from a stupid letter to a newspaper!!?? Irony, folks, is something to laugh at, not get your panties in a twist over.
Um, which country are you talking about? Because the US doesn’t have a “Christian government,” at least not by intent, and we weren’t always at war with the Muslims.
The Treaty of Tripoli, put into action by John Adams and the early Congress, proves both of these points.
History: I learned it.
And you would know this how? Because you’re deep and close and personal with God? Do you have tea with him every Friday? You think there wasn’t war before Bush? You obviously need to retake your eighth grade history class. I guess you people think just because Bush did go to war, God wanted him to? God can’t control everything. And does war always have to be classified so badly? Those 100,000 and more soldiers went on their will. They wanted to go to war. They were not forced. We should thank them for that. If you are so sad for those dead soldiers, you should understand that they knew what they could be giving up when they signed up. All of them were willing to risk their life for their country and I admire that. We were saved by them. What would have happened if Bush had done nothing?
I assume Obama is your hero because of his taking those soldiers back. They WANT to be there. Let them stand up for them country and stop blaming others when they’re the ones who made their way up to running our country as we sit and watch. Have you done anything for our country? I haven’t, but at least I’m not blaming others who are at least trying.
this war saved us from what??? being over populated? we still haven’t found bin laden… we went and killed a bunch of Iraqis for nothing. in my book if you don’t like your government stand up for yourself or ask for help, we didn’t wait for the people of Iraq to ask for US help we just stormed in there and said “your leader is bad and we are helping you.. your welcome.. ” that makes bush a douche bag… and it makes you a d’bag for agreeing with him… the war was a waste of lives and the whole world would have been better off if we didn’t start it in the first place… the Taliban attacked us on 911 NOT Iraq!
Now you don’t make any sense. You are accusing her of making things up about god yet you are saying god couldn’t control whether we went to war or not. How the hell do you know what god can and can’t do? Do YOU have tea with him every Friday? I don’t believe in god but I think that if there was something so powerful like god then it would be something so far beyond our understanding that if anybody claims to know ANYTHING about it then they are just idiots that are pulling made-up information out of their ass.
Whoa. Comment Win!
Awesome Total Win.
I totally agree Bradley! If he can destroy entire cities, and create THE WHOLE DAMN UNIVERSE IN SEVEN DAYS he can stop a little war right?
If God can’t control everything, then the bible is wrong, witch we already know it is, or how was it , that it changed so much between the old and the new testament?
BTW i don’t think God drinks tea… Super Being are beyond human pleasure.
On another note, the soldiers that went to Iraq, where ordered, they where not given a choice.
You know what would have happened if USA hadn’t gone to war? There would probably be less recession in the US.
I can see that you admire the soldiers that defend your country, but you are not loyal to your country, otherwise you would embrace your new leader and accept his decision like the one before him.
I believe you are one of those that sit and watch, and you are blaming other people for trying to reason with you.
BTW, i do not live in United States, i do not believe in God in what ever form, and one thing for all “Americans” America is a continent, not a country, Your country is United States of America. Aka USA
Two things. Number one, the Bible never says “God controls everything”. It shows His power, but it also shows that He lets us make our own choices. It shows there are other powers, and wills, at work in the universe. Hence why Jesus teaches us to pray for God’s will to be done. If it was only His Will at work regardless…why ask? And particularly in the Prophets, but really throughout the Old Testament, we see the same love and mercy we see in the NT. The New just takes things to a different level. The OT was written for a national covenant (alliance) with God, the NT was about a personal covenant with individuals, which deepened what we saw in the old. Nations must defend their citizens. Individuals can turn the other cheek. I don’t claim to understand all of the Conquest and such, which I imagine is your next thought. But there is a consistent thread running through the Testaments. I’ll be happy to post some examples if you are interested in following up on this.
As for disagreeing with our president, it’s the back side of a democracy that half the people in this country didn’t vote for the guy. Not saying it’s right. It just comes with the territory.
Actually, if you ever paid attention during the geography lessons you got in grade school you would know that there is no such continent as America. There are two continents with a similar name however, and those are as follows: North America and South America.
So, [the last part of] your comment is invalid.
Hit the brakes, pardner! Just because someone says “Bush led us to war” doesn’t mean they truly believe every war since the dawn of time has been waged by Bush! They meant the Iraq War. Oh, and, yes, Bush DID say God told him to invade Iraq, check the article, it has a great picture of Bush in it:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa
And please don’t assume Obama is someone’s hero just because he correctly posted that Bush said God told him to invade Iraq. We know what happens when we “ass-ume!”
Its people like the girl that wrote that article that turn into people like that. ha ha, so ridiculous….and a little scary. She would be the first one to start firing. Doubt her God would save me.
Things the Bible says you should be killed for:
•For touching Mount Sinai
•For taking “accursed things”
•For cursing or blaspheming the name of the Lord
•For adultery (including rape victims who fail to scream loudly enough)
•For a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night
•For worshipping other gods
•For disobeying parents
•For being a witch or wizard
•For giving your children to Molech
•For breaking the Sabbath
•For cursing the king
•And many, many more
God may never have been recorded as saying “kill… KILL… KILLLL!!!!” but the Old Testament is full of stories about God telling his people to go into this or that city and kill all the men and women and boys and enslave the little girls. Often with details on how “he” wanted the killings done. In essence, God had a serious anger management problem in the Old Testament. So it’s nice to say “God never said kill,” but he modeled ruthless warlord for us pretty well. Most religions just might be against killing and war, as you say, but the Bible is full of it.
wow… way to steal from george carlin and not give him any credit.
Actually, birth is the leading cause of death, coming in at 100%.
Awesome. I applaud you, Akshully.
So, you’re saying no one should have religion? I believe it is a free country and I also believe there is free religion in the Constitution. Are you saying that all those guys that wrote that are also morons? I don’t doubt that religion is a leading cause of death, but atheism is a religion and anyone who says it isn’t obviously doesn’t understand. You don’t believe in God, that’s still a religion. What isn’t a religion is if you have no opinion of God or the life beyond death, you’re just waiting to find out. So you can’t exclude atheists from this death either. And it is not Gods fault that death is happening that religions are fighting. He can not control us. And you can not blame him either. If you are an atheist, than its quite contradictory that you can say you don’t believe in God, but yet you blame him for this. Atheists don’t blame God because they don’t believe he exists. So you can blame a religion, but don’t blame God. And is war always a bad thing. Those soldiers are saving our lives, and for that we should be thankful. We can’t all be Obama-fanatic, war-haters. And what is “Thou shalt not kill” also in? The Bible. For a person who claims they’re atheist, you sure mention a lot about God and his beliefs. And I think that saying is referring to not killing the innocent. And though that is happening all over the world, atheists do it too.
I am a proud Christian but I am not deeply involved in religion. I don’t blame any certain religions, and I don’t hate or stereotype. I appreciate any type of opinion unless the opinionee is attempting to blame other religions and not theirs for things that only certain people did.
Thank you.
Atheism is a religion in the same way that not collecting stamps is a hobby.
There is a difference between “I don’t believe in any god” and “there is no god.” Most atheists follow the first line of thought.
Atheists don’t hate God, either. They simply don’t believe in it. What they hate are things done in the name of .
Incidentally, the original Hebrew for the OT differentiates between “murder” and “kill.” The word is understood to mean killing any person.
As a personal note, I support the troops. I do not support the war, especially since it was started on false pretenses (which changed a few times, by the way). However, I think pulling out everyone at once is a bad idea until the Iraqi gov’t. no longer needs our military presence.
Okay, in the original Hebrew, it means, “Thou shalt not murder.” Killing is presumably fine, since it is advocated in many cases i.e. homosexuality, fornication, and even disobedient children.
And athiesm is a religion in the same sense that vegetarians are hunters. The logic is all wrong. I myself am not athiest, I’m Pagan, partly for the violence religion – not God, you’re right about that one – embraces.
Who says they don’t easter-egg hunt?
You see God embracing violence a LOT in the Old Testament. Remember the word “smite?” It’s practically on every page at least once in the OT.
“[A]theism is a religion and anyone who says it isn’t obviously doesn’t understand.”
Really? This is the best you can do? Tell someone something that’s not true about their belief system which you do not share then say they don’t understand their own belief system (which, it bears repeating, you DON’T SHARE)? And are you really getting bunched panties at an atheist for quoting the bible? Geez, you’d think a loving Christian would SQUEE at an atheist knowing the bible. But maybe you find it threatening that someone who doesn’t follow religion knows your “book of secrets.” Oooohhhh!
Really? You’re surprised? Sounds like a good majority of the US of A population speaking, hoax or not. I myself am also a grateful member of large continental landmass in the middle of ‘nowheres’.
Out of 4200 religions in the world, some of them *are* classified as atheistic. Buddhism, for example is one minor (ahem!) atheistic religion.
Well, never mind. Perhaps the cumulative effect of the second amendment will hit critical mass and put us all our of our misery.
I just went and read your First Amendment of the “Commandments” (aka Constitution) which doesn’t say ‘you must believe’ at all, so the supposed author is just making that bit up. Riveting reading that.
Hmm might go and read my own constitution and see if I can make up some good and inflammatory lies about it for fun…
Actually, it would be pretty sweet to get kicked out of america. Do they do that?
Were it so easy…
First? And holy crap! Alice seems to be upset about something… I wonder if her husband just left her for an atheist woman?
in this case “atheist woman” means …a woman who takes it in all positions, not only misionary…
Brilliant!
This is a well known prank letter. See Snopes:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/atheists.asp
Snopes does note that, “Given the plenitude of e-mails we’ve received over the years expressing the very same sentiments as this letter, it (regardless of the intentions of its creator and/or sender) apparently does reflect the genuine opinions of a not insubstantial readership base.”
I should have known to check Snopes before commenting below. But as they say on the site, it’s hard to call anything subjective like this “true” or “false.” There are definitely people out there who share the views expressed in the hoax letter.
The funny thing is, I’m going to be a citizen as early as May even though I’ve lived here most of my life. (Thank you red tape.) If you look at the study questions the government gives you for the citizenship test (see my post below), you’ll see that freedom of religion definitely means the freedom to practice or not to practice without fear of persecution.
I can’t say what is or isn’t posted on snopes, I didn’t check. However, I can vouch that this woman posted that letter to my local newspaper. Sadly I live in this town.
On behalf of people who believe in God: Lady, shut up – you’ll make the rest of us look like whackadoos, too!
As an Athiest, that is one thing i can strongly agree with you on.
On behalf of athiest: “Look like”? lol, you are.
No, it’s believing in the magic sky fairy and the bogeyman under the bed that make you look like whackadoos.
Then again, believing in the “particles that are so small you cannot see them, ever, and if you look at them, they change” also makes people seem a bit strange.
Still they tell me it must be true, otherwise I couldn’t be typing on this computer. And if that’s not evidence, then I don’t want to know what is.
You mean…The magic sky fairy Isn’t real!? ;;A;; IS CHUCK NORRIS A LIE TOO?!
Comparing Chuck Norris to the ‘magic sky fairy’ seems a bit insulting…
to Chuck Norris maybe… Chuck Norris and Jesus got into a fight… thats why we havent seen him for almost 2000 years
Making assumptions about people without knmowing them or what they believe is idiotic…being close minded is idiotic…left brainers are boring…Anti-theists are as bad as someone who has the mind set of anyone who would write that article…based one what I’ve gotten form Atheists, I hate them honestly
Way to contradict yourself there.
Also, he seems to think all atheists are anti-theists. That is definitely not the case.
Hypocrisy and stereotyping in a post condemning both? Fail.
the magic sky fairy? i believe that is possibly the best synonym for God. EVER! and i am a christian.
The world we live in is retardedly complicated and ever changing; we are like drops in the ocean, contemplating space-dust: we can’t know anything for sure.
Don’t worry about her. You all look silly anyway, for believing and practicing such a silly fantasy.
And you all look like ignorant dungbrains going around bullying and belittling people for their beliefs. Faith is no more and act of stupidity than disbelief is an act of evil. I’m tired of hearing it. This goes for all of you that replied with this crap, not just “Pete”.
And people like you guys are what make atheists look like smug assholes who care only about ourselves. Good job, slapnut.
it’s not about what you believe. its about having faith in something. anything. even if it is in the magic sky fairy.
“It doesn’t matter what you believe, as long as you believe in it with all your heart.”-Charles M. Schulz
I don’t believe in a Biblical sense of God, nor do I believe there is nothing. I believe what makes sense to me, and that NO ONE knows the truth until we die, and then you can’t relay the message. If everyone could just let everyone believe what they wanted, the world would be a slightly better place.
Am I preventing you from believing what you want? You are free to believe whatever stupid thing your heart desires. When you air that publically, your stupid belief is probably going to get criticized, however.
Having “faith” just to have “faith” is in no way logical or reasonible. your just blindly believing in something to get you through the hard times because you cant do it without it.
I can “do it” just fine without “it.” I can also use the right “you’re,” capitalize words and put the apostrophe in the word “can’t,” but never mind that now. I know I can succeed and function perfectly well without a Deity floating out there someplace – I just choose not to. And frankly it isn’t your place to judge anyone else over something like that. So, don’t, please.
And yet you capitalized “deity”.
I believe in Mr. Hankey…. How is it nobody’s said that, yet?
Don’t let the Flying Spaghetti Monster hear you say that! FSM and Jesus arecloserthanthis.
Grammar faiiiilll… “on behalf of PEOPLE who believe in God: LADY, shut up…” If you’re talking to PEOPLE, then LADY does not make sense. Lady is singular, people is plural. And is it not in the bill of rights that we have freedom of speech and religion? I think we should be allowed our rights. And agreeing with the other poster, “look like” doesn’t make sense. You already ARE whackadoos. I guess you’re telling me you never believed in Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny? I’m sure.
Have you ever killed a mosquito when it landed on your arm? Does the mosquito go to mosquito heaven if it led a good mosquito life, or does it go to mosquito hell for being a blood-sucking parasite that trifled with the wrong god-fearing christian? Does the inherent nature of the mosquito to suck blood genetically predispose it to “evil” status?
Have you ever used antibacterial soap? In the blink of an eye, entire cultures (pun intended) of living organisms are wiped out by this miracle of modern science, protecting us all from the devastation of things like salmonella and/or having dirt or whatever on our hands. Does this, in a sense, provide us with a parable for the christian belief in armageddon? The entire bacterial populace is wiped out, callously annihilated because somebody had gunk uder their fingernails. Will the faithful bacteria who followed their bacteria-messiah’s every command as it was written in the bacteria-bible be saved and ascend to bacteria heaven? Will they get into REAL heaven if they were good enough?
Religious logic would dictate that there are no bacteria in REAL heaven, because no one in heaven ever gets salmonella (except for the good salmonella bacteria in bacteria heaven, because they wouldn’t care anyway.) But what about the non-salmonella bacteria who only cheated at bacteria-cards (just once) or lied to their bacteria parents about why they got home so late, even if said bacteria worshipped bacteria jesus with all his/her bacterium heart and had bacteria bumper-stickers proclaiming his/her undying faith and sponsorship of the bacteria-religious-radio station? Would REAL god save THESE BACTERIA?
When dinosaurs went extinct, did their dinosaur-god go extinct as well? If heaven is as wonderful as certain people (who have never been there themselves) claim it to be , I would expect it to have dinosaurs, because dinosaurs are totally awesome. Would the dinosaurs in heaven be only the very best of the “good” dinosaurs, who protested abortion and homosexuality outside of dinosaur planned parenthood every day, and never spoke out of turn? Or would it be EVERY dinosaur, who all went to REAL heaven after the untimely demise of dinosaur god (and pesumably, dinosaur heaven)? Dinosaurs rule and people in heaven deserve to watch dinosaurs do awesome stuff like rip people in half and stomp on schoolbuses and fight other dinosaurs, baring their huge bloody teeth and roaring with victory. Man, I better start believing in god (or dinosaur-god, if he still exists) right away, because that makes heaven sound pretty cool.
However, the scenario above would necessitate the allowance of “evil” dinosaurs into REAL heaven, which presumably only accomodates the most faithful of any species, by human standards. Humans who go around biting other humans in half will probably not be allowed into REAL heaven. But, you know, if I were to envision heaven, ANYTHING biting people in half would be near the top of the list of things to see in the realm of eternal bliss. Supposing there is a mosquito heaven and a puppy heaven and a bacteria heaven and a hamster heaven and a dinosaur heaven, there MUST be hybrid heavens. I’d like to go to dinosaur/monster truck/hot babe/excellent music heaven. Is there anything the human bible can tell me about that?
Or should I just go to hell? I hear the soundtrack rules, I love Black Sabbath. Hell’s got all the fire and skulls and stuff which is cool too. But if it’s really hell, then its probably not so great. I mean, what if there’s dinosaur Hitler and mosquito Hitler and hamster Hitler and regular Hitler and every other Hitler of every other species? I don’t want to hang out with those guys. At most, I’d like the racistest guy in hell to tell a racist joke with a punchline like “BARBECUE SAUCE!” where everyone laughs because its funny AND stereotypical and everyone can laugh at that, but then everyone looks at each other uncomfortably and doesn’t make eye contact, bacause it is hell after all.
If there are multiple variants of heaven, then there must be multiple variants of hell. I suppose I’d settle for a version of hell where there are drag races you can compete in but never win (but you get to build a sweet car in the process, which you can drive drunk without any repercussions because all the MADD members went to REAL heaven, but cops can always dirve faster than you), prositutes who do it all but give you (easily curable) venerial disease, and dinosaurs ripping people in half. I could be one of those bisected people, but only if I thereafter regenerated to the same variant of hell, and there were a bunch of people in front of me in line to get ripped in half by a dinosaur again so I could watch. I’d say “haha, I know what THAT’S like!”
But in reality, none of that exists. Every person on earth has their own vision of eveything they’d like the afterlife to be, and everything they’d like it NOT to be. I can only assume every mosquito, dinosaur, sea lamprey, protozoa, and everything other living thing in the universe has its own vision of that as well, though I’ve only ever been a human, so I can’t speak for them.
So… believe whatever you want, and don’t be afraid to speak your mind about it. Both of the above are mandated by the constitution of our great nation. The seperation of church and state is also mandated, as it should be, so I don’t think our kids should be saying the lord’s prayer in school any more than they should be praying to robot-pterodactyl-dracula-jesus, or hamster-giraffe-AIDS virus-neanderthal jesus. Speaking of school, back to the reason I intended to post in the first place, as a reply to ALLY’S message above:
Given the context, I’m sure beyond all reasonale doubt that the poster was speaking to a particular “lady” on behalf of “people who believe in god.” I’m not sure if YOU were this lady (beacuse I’m too lazy to scroll back up), but your grammar logic is invalid. Having read your previous posts, LADY, it would appear that most of your other logic is invalid as well. Therefore, on behalf of the freindsofirony.com message board: lady, believe whatever you want and allow everyone else to do the same. But please, for the love of Christ, shut up.
Apathist,
That was hilarious. I just read it out loud to my husband. All of it. Thank you for the good laugh.
Agreed.
“Hamster Hitler” is the name of the band that backs up Black Sabbath in Hell.
The more you know…
The Oujia-Board-conjured ghost of Errol Flynn speaks:
“Hey, is the actual hamster Hitler in the band? If so, I’m probably gonna skip the show. I hate that guy. RoboCop Isaac Newton’s band usually plays the same night anyway, and they’re pretty good (they’ve got ROBOCOPS!). Cliff Burton sometimes sits in for RoboCop Gallileo, and RoboCop Tycho Brahe KILLS on drums. They usually dump Red Foreman into a barrel of toxic waste after the show, which has got to suck for him. They’re a little too math-rock for my tastes, but Gottfried Leibniz has been telling me “a thing or two!” about “a thing or two!” when he’s wasted, so I’m starting to pick up on the polymeters and their respective integrals and infinite series and whatever the hell else Leibniz and Euler and all them other krauts jabber about when they’re drinking on Truckasaurus-Satan’s tab. It’s interminable, no wonder they burned these witches at the stake. Man, hell sucks. What time does Sabbath go on again?”
No, they couldn’t get it to sing without HH trying to take a dump on the sound board, but I did hear that the Powers-that-be are getting the band “Elvis Hitler”(A real band btw) back together, perhaps with Richard Gere doing his little shtick, though it is gerbils, but who’s complaining, amirite?
that. was.
brilliant.
That was long, funny and awesome! May I give you a high-five?
You may
This is a real EPIC comment!
Bravo!! That was brilliant!
Snark attempt faiiiilll… They’re not talking TO people who believe in God, it’s FROM people who believe in God. TO the lady. Nice try, though.
Formerly alive U.S. President John F. Kennedy says:
“The only unchangeable certainty is that nothing is certain or unchangeable, unless we’re talking about getting chomped in half by a dinosaur here in assassinated president hell, which is full of hookers. It’s pretty cool here, except the booze is pricey and William Mckinley sticks the rest of us with his tab every time it’s his turn to get atomized by an awesome nuclear missile strike. Also, Alexander Hamilton is always going on about “the blacks” stealing “his VCR.” Yeah right, dude. Everything in hell is laserdisc, you’re just being racist. Jerk.
Also, we already covered the poor grammatical comprehension thing.”
Apathist who are you! I want to read more witty things.
Dear Horsense,
I’m a dude with an internet connection, much like everyone else on the internet (possibly even yourself!) I am not witty. If you’d like to read witty things, I’d recommend the works of Mark Twain, you’re sure to enjoy them. I certainly do.
When I was a kid, we had a dog that got rabies. She barked and barked, and I asked my dad why we couldn’t let her in the house. He told me about how you have to get 27 shots in the stomach if a rabid dog bites you and I told him that didn’t sound so great. My dad brought out his rifle, and told me about dog heaven. I said “dog heaven sounds pretty swell” or something along those lines, and my dad threw the chicken bones from his lunch pail out the window. Our dog went to inspect the food scraps and was killed with a single shot through the neck. We buried her beside the driveway. It’s a memory that’s stuck with me.
I adopted a stray cat a week ago. Today I took the cat to the veterinarian. The vet gave her a rabies shot and I asked him how much it would cost to give me one too. He said “we don’t administer rabies shots for people.” I asked him if he knew any place that did, and he said he didn’t know. I asked if that was an uncommon request and he said something about how it’s now five shots in the arm in the rare occasion that a person gets rabies. I asked him again if he couldn’t just juice me up with some rabies vaccine while nobody was looking, and he quickly changed the subject and vaccinated my cat against FIV (for those who don’t know, FIV is the feline equivalent of HIV.) This really sent me into a tizzy!
I asked the veterinarian how they’ve got a vaccine for feline AIDS and not human AIDS. He said he didn’t know, but that’s a good question. I asked if he’d shoot me up with some AIDS vaccine and he said nope, no rabies vaccine, no AIDS vaccine, no nothing. I asked him what the hell kind of a doctor are you and he left the room. Then the intern lady came in and gave my cat a shot for feline leukemia. I asked if I could please have a leukemia shot and she said she’d have to ask the doctor. Then she left and didn’t come back. So, I paid my bill and left, less immunized and inoculated than a stinky old cat that eats garbage.
The question is, why in the hell CAN’T they immunize against HIV or rabies or leukemia for humans? My medical records indicate that I’m immunized against smallpox and polio. When was the last time anybody got polio? FDR? Who last contracted smallpox on this continent, or on any continent? When was the last time somebody got German measles? Raise your hand if you’ve ever had German measles. Raise your hand if you know what a measle is. If there’s an inoculation for feline immunodeficiency virus, why isn’t there a vaccine for the human equivalent?
A cat lives 20 years tops. Yep, they’re cute. They’re also expensive to work on, 150 dollars for a few shots and a vet checkup is a bit much to pay for a routine examination for a mangy beast that hangs around the porch and eats worms. However, if I could pay 150 bucks to prevent myself from contracting AIDS, leukemia, and rabies, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
So there THAT is.
smallpox: about 30 years ago
polio: 2 days before your post
I once spent $106 so that the vet could confirm that my cat had ear mites and give me a once-dose tube of medication that I had to administer myself at home. I didn’t think to ask if I could have some for myself..
Tell me about it. Why can’t we all just get along? Life is hard enough without hating each other for stupid reasons.
I’ve actually read similar things in my local paper.
lots of fallacies here in this letter to the editor…the biggest one being that no atheist simply CHOOSES not to believe in god…they simply don’t believe…it was never a conscious effort for me not to believe, in fact I made every effort to continue my one loved faith until I finally became comfortable with being an atheist.
also, In God We Trust was added to our currency in 1952.
also, this person should read The Constitution…
…and the red parts of The New Testament.
What about hindus? They’re religious, and believe in godS. So they’re not atheists but don’t believe in god – should they leave too? How about we just lock up everyone who doesn’t believe exactly the same as you?
what a nutjob
“How about we just lock up everyone who doesn’t believe exactly the same as you?”
Yep, thats religion… thats a tolerant religion,. most religions just kill everyone who doesn’t believe exactly the same as you.
Most peopel do that…nothing to do with religion…that’s what people don’t understand…they’re intollerant, it’s then not the religion
Pretty much once you’ve read enough of the Vedas you sorta begin to realize that Jahweh is just a white people’s version of Vishnu. I mean no disrepect to anyone who follows the Vedic faiths mind you, that’s just one white guy’s dumb interpretation.
Personally, I prefer the parables in the Vedas.
Also, I cringe as the spelling of god’s name, despite not being Jewish.
Funny, but it’s satirical — see http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/atheists.asp
I can’t help but wonder what her views on neopaganism are, and would greatly enjoy hearing her voice them.
Indeed…
HA! This person is from Alaska. The same as Sarah Palin.
The extreme cold must slow the brain up there.
Is this Soldotna, AK? I also say shut-up, don’t make the rest of us Alaskans look any crazier than the lower 48 thinks we are!
The ‘ge’ (Anchorage) to the right and the fishing reference suggest that. The font doesn’t seem to be what ADN uses.
Just out of curiosity, what other state is “upper”? By lower 48, I’d assume you mean the 48 connected States between Canada and Mexico, but Hawaii is further south that that…
Hehe but Hawaii is high in a different way
I’m not seeing “irony” here. Is it the fact that she’s exercising her right to free speech in order to attempt to squelch someone else’s? Seems like a stretch.
Well, if you read the last sentence of her rant you will see that she says, “I don’t care if they have never committed a crime, atheists are the reason that crime is rampant.”
Maybe not ironic, but fairly contradictory to say the least.
-_- man I hate stupid people
Yeah, you know how they show stupid people on America’s Funniest Home Videos? By the end of a segment, I usually want to punch each and every one of them.
Please don’t: I quite enjoy watching fat people fall off trampolines.
i find it amazing when people actually know the definition of Irony. thank you very much Alanis Morrisette for killing all hope of educating americans
Very definitely a fail, but I don’t see the irony. Can someone help me?
The irony is that the letter claims to advocate “freedom of religion” while simultaneously suggesting that everyone must be forced to practice a religion. That alone is ironic — the freedom to do something also implies the freedom not to do something, otherwise it would not be a freedom but an obligation — but even more ironically, the US Constitution actually forbids the establishment of an official religion, which is exactly what the author wants (while bleating on about what the US “stands for”).
Fortunately, this letter is actually a piece of satire and was never meant to be taken seriously. Unfortunately, there are many people who would fail to recognise the satire and would agree wholeheartedly with the letter.
Poe’s Law baybee. And I bet this is THE biggest example of it too.
I believe in Cthulu, does that count? How about Satanists? They believe, so that should be fine too.
Yeah, I know, satire. But satire so close to reality as to be indistinguishable.
What about Pastafarians? They believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster……
I believe in his noodly appendages. But he is not god he is the fsm and that’s what we say, as in “Oh My FSM this women is stupid”!
Ramen!
Pastafarian is the one true religion.
Death to the non believers!
My unicorn is invisible… and pink.
I LOVE THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!
Wha… I can only hope this is a satire…
I love the atheist’s instant reply below the letter… let’s just keep fishing!
I noticed that too, and lolled a little
All right everybody thats not an asshole leave america! I’m already not in america so i’m not an asshole!
Lets gather all the worlds Ass-holes, sheer Idiots, Fanatics, etc and have them establish a colony on mars. they soon destroy themselves and Earth will be much better off.
I really like your ideas.
Don’t forget the phone sanitizers.
Yeah, but all those assholes would blow up Mars, which would fuck up Earths orbit and before we know it Earth would faceplant the sun.
Oh sure, athiests are the cause of all the crime in this country, but priests molesting altarboys is perfectly fine?
Yeah priests molesting kids is fine! Whats wrong with the church?
Its not a crime if your a preist. You will notice a preist has never been prosecuted by the state. Instead they get a slap on the wrist from the church.
No elected official caught in any sex scandal or crime has ever had to suffer more than a slap on the wrist either – and if they get behind the lectern and invoke Jesus, they usually even get reelected.
More like a satire fail, if you ask me. It’s scary to think how many people took this seriously and are even more turned off by Christans…
im sort of atheist but im half cuz im not sure so ya and alice it’s a free country even if im not in it
Welcome to the path of sense.
I’m not a Bigot but i do feel strongly against religion for a wide range of reasons
Then your agnostic fool. NOT ATHEIST!
Atheist = ‘there is no god’
Agnostic = ‘it’s impossible for us to know either way’
Agnostic= against religion not the belief in God…they’re smarter than Atheists in general because all the ones I’ve met actually know somethign about the world’s religions Atheists don’t
Alright, so my best friend and I–both 4.0 students–are stupid because we both have gathered evidence that has led us to believe that there is no god. Oh, and even better? My best friend is fascinated by eastern religions.
That would’ve been a nice thing to say to what he said about atheists, but he said “in general”, so he in no way said you or your friend would be stupid or ignorant.
Oh, actually might’ve been my mistake. I thought he said “in general” in a different spot. But, well, you know, people make mistakes. Anyway, it was based on his experience, so he apparently hasn’t met you or your friend.
Congratulations on proving that you know absolutely nothing about either agnostics OR atheists. Well done.
Nearly all the atheists (no capitalization, mate) I’ve met know quite a bit about the world’s religions. They inquire, they study, many of them are even raised religious.
Either you don’t know any atheists, or the few you do know are just bad representatives of atheists in general. Fun fact: atheist does not necessarily mean anti-religion. It just means a lack of belief in any god(s). Agnostic means someone who isn’t certain about the existence of any god(s).
If I recall correctly “it’s impossible for us to know either way” is part of the humanist argument (which is another branch of non-theistic belief systems). The whole thing being paraphrasable as “it’s impossible to know either way, stop worrying about it and live a good life as best you can. You’ll find out what it is when you’re dead, or not, as the case may be.”
I like how this has turned from an argument on Believers and non-believers to atheists and agnostics. There is obviously a distinct difference but your on the same side people!
Actually, atheist = lacking any belief in god(s), and agnostic = taking the position that certain knowledge of the existence of god(s) is unknown or unknowable. They are not mutually-exclusive propositions — you can be an agnostic atheist (and most atheists are).
emm no you cant.
As said befor
Atheist = ‘there is no god’
Agnostic = ‘it’s impossible for us to know either way’
there is a clear diffrantce, but yes might seem so cause alot of Agnostics claim to be Athiest, either cause there not clear on the meaning of Athiest or dont know the term Agnostic.
i don’t get it?
Satire fail, I suppose. I am not seeing where the irony comes in, tho…
lolRabbit
(a Believer)
The irony is saying that “freedom of religion” means “you have a choice between Protestant sects and Catholicism,” instead of “you may follow any or no religion.”
i hope you perish in flames, you disgust me. If thats christianity, then put it up your ass, i dont care about that crap.
Learn philosophy, as this “letter” is riddled with so many begginers errors. FFS…
And yet the good Christians are never gonna change your opinion..you’re an idiot
the thing that stuns me most about all of the “i hate christians” athiests is that they are either incredibly stupid or just generally ignorant. i myself am a christian, but i am not what you would call a bible thumper. i do not shove my religion down anyone’s throat. in fact i question most of it. but at the end of the day i come back to it, because that is what i believe. and if you have any smarts at all you would read through these comments and realise that not all christians are like this lady. and apparently this lady isn’t like this either, because this letter was a joke. learn how to read and please open your mind
Believe me, the atheists who claim to hate Christians are the minority. The loud, irritating minority.
This foolish person obviously doesn’t know thing-one about the freedom of religion. If you look at the American citizenship test, the correct answer to the question regarding what freedom of religion means goes like this: “You can practice any religion, or not practice a religion.”
Source: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=88086338b3281210VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD&vgnextchannel=7a649ddf801b3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD
The good thing about these things: they come with built-in satire.
Being an atheist i guess i have to say – Oh your God!
As an Atheist, and an intelligent Human Being I have to say: Oh silly Alice,You sound like a Moron! Yes take all the Atheist away from the US. It will leave all the crazy fools behind to live in the fantasy world they have always imagined! Good luck with your progression of sciences and technologies, and good luck with developing new theories about anything at all logical. Obviously the latter wouldn’t bother you at all. Seeing as logical probably isn’t even in your vocabulary Alice Shannon. Oh and BTW, they need to take “in god we trust OFF US currency, they need to take that god lyric out of the National Anthem, it’s the only reason I sit when everyone else stands. How can I take pride in a country that still has this Christian Mentality and forces it onto it’s countrymen?
Silly atheist. I have nothing against atheists, but atheists who think that God should be taken off currency and national anthems are asking for too much. And also, implying that religion impedes science and technology to the point of no progression is very closed-minded of you. Like I said, I have nothing against atheists, or any religion, but you my friend are a blemish on Earth.
What’s with all the hate? You sound like a butt hurt xian.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” “In god we trust” was placed on our money by overzealous bible thumpers who believed that a couple of engravings would ensure some sky fairy’s protection. LOL!
And, yes, Atheist is correct. Religion DOES impede science and technology in a way. It wasn’t called the Dark Ages for no reason. There is a proven correlation between education and religion, and if the dumbing down of the population of the US continues at its current rate, you can expect to hear from a whole lot more “Alices.”
I must say, asking too much to take religious texts off from the currency of the US and the national anthem? Really? I mean, yeah, probably the majority of Americans are Christians, but it must be insulting and annoying to the people who represent other religions and still have to use the money with a heretic text for their religion. And, also that national anthem, it should also be religiously neutral.
Maybe we should do away with minted money altogether. It would solve the problem of wasting resources… The penny is worthless, anyway. Electronic systems are the way to go!!!
I completly agree…!
How is it asking for too much? on your currency it says ‘in god we trust’. to Atheists… and i’m sure to practicers of the many other faiths that are active in the United States… this is ridiculously offensive!
Being British, Altheism is, pleasantly, the norm over here. or at least it seems so. although i do hate the fact that the word ‘god’ is used 3 times in our national anthem :-/
I do agree with you on the closed-mindedness though, being religious doesn’t have to have any affect whatsoever on scientific, or technological research at all… however i guess it could seriously impede the ethics of certain ‘sensitive’ research…
It is asking for to much because taking words out of an entire country’s currency and anthem, especially ones that have been in place for so long, just for the pride of a group that is a minority in that country isn’t even realistic. And also, religion does impede science, but not very much.
Religion itself does not impede science. Religion taken to extremes does. Consider the Dark Ages and the Italian Renaissance for examples. Both periods were marked by very strong Catholic tendencies.
Throughout the Dark Ages, knowledge from Roman times was kept in monastaries and carefully preserved, but not exposed to the public. This was out of concern that by exposing their followers to a higher level of technology and understanding of the natural world, the Church would lose its support.
During the Italian Renaissance, classical theories came to light in a major way and were expanded upon significantly. Architecture flourished, turning drab stone castles and mud-and-grass huts into the beautiful cities that still exist throughout Italy (albeit having been largely surrounded by modern construction). What were the biggest, best, most brilliant structures built in Italy in the era (and quite possibly, in any era)? Cathedrals. Buildings so impressive, immense, and astounding that it takes the breath away. Buildings built for the singular purpose of honoring God.
So, does religion impede scientific development? Depends how it’s used.
And with whos money were the cathedrals built? Sadly, during that period the Catholic church emptied the pockets of the faithful to feather its own nest.
I don’t necessarily agree that scientific progress is curtailed by religion, although some disciplines are frowned upon because of religious doctrine. For example: Galileo Galilei was forced by the church to recant his views supporting Copernicus’ advocation of a Heliocentric solar system, which is ironic in itself considering Copernicus was a Catholic minister. During the latter part of his life Galileo was labelled a heretic and kept under house arrest.
for so long is since the 1950s, in terms of “in god we trust” on our money, at least officially- it had been around off and on since 1861. and why are we talking about the national anthem, it doesn’t mention god… maybe you’re thinking of the pledge of allegiance, but that only had “under god” added in the 1950s…
ah, so the star spangled banner does mention god… in the 4th verse, while only the 1st is commonly known… and even that has only been official since the 1930s… in place for so long? the non-establishment clause has been around longer.
You, sir or madame Malfeasant, win one free internet.
Yeah, it’s so unreasonable to expect that our Constitution actually be *followed*… This is America, after all — we were founded on mob rule! Individual liberties are for pussies.
Also, 60 years = all of eternity.
There are no God lyrics in the National Anthem. Methinks you meant the Pledge of Allegiance, in which case it would be better referred to as wording or phrasing, since the Pledge is generally not sung.
But now I have to sing the Pledge the next time it is recited in my presence.. What have you done?!
Sadly some people think like that… giving Christians in general a bad name. I’m athiest and more offended a person could think like that than offended that I should have been offended by it.
Yes. Agreed. everyone in my family is Christian. Some Hard core., like listening to Jesus music in the car, jammin to it. But none of them share the opinion of this Alice. They are good people who simply do not discuss religion with me. My best friend is a HARD CORE Christian. She refuses to even talk about evolution, which I see as she just doesn’t want to hear objections and knowledge to go against what she believes in. But she loves me, and thinks everyone has a right to believe in what they want. Not all Christians are ignorant as Alice Shannon.
hit your friend with this one ‘you only beleive that because you were raised to’
I agree with you wholeheartedly that people only believe something if their family has taught them that way. I myself am an atheist; my mother was raised a Catholic–my grandmother was a nun when she was in her early twenties, for crying out loud! Now my grandmother is agnostic, my mother thinks most religious concepts are absurd, and I am an atheist. A granddaughter of a former nun, and I am atheist.
Somewhat ironic, but hey, that’s what this site is for, right? XD
There are numerous Evangelical preachers on and off the television who tell their followers that it is not worth having faith if your faith goes unexamined; that if you are Christian because your Mommy and Daddy are Christian, then you need to stop and take a look at what you believe. God (or whomever) doesn’t want blind followers; idiotic sheep SUCK.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahah
Woowwww… so we create crime now? Uh, how exactly?
People do…nothign to do with religion or lack there of
this article is satire and fake. plz check link or just search snopes
Thou shalt not judge people by religion.
or lack thereof
Actually, I think the irony comes from the fact that she pretty much states that atheists are what’s wrong with the world when I think it is religion and the religious that are causing 90% of the problems we have. I know this letter is satire, but I have debated with tens of people who have stated almost the exact same thing, nearly word for word. Actually I should say ‘argue,’ not ‘debate’ – ‘debate’ implies an intelligent discourse, and we all know it is impossible to have one of those with a religious nut.
I have to agree with the part about crime being rampant because of atheists. Because they don’t believe in a god, they think they can do whatever they please. Thats what the guy who killed my brother thought. Makes me sad.
you had better be taking the piss
I mean bad people as in the crime rampanters not atheists!
I think i made my point!
I will stab you then piss on your corpse, and since i’m an athiest i know theres no god looking over my shoulder, so i wont hold back!
Oh, but us atheist’s have this thing we call a conscience, i know you selfish religios types wouldn’t understand it.
But i think i can disregard my conscience in this case, as butchering you then pissing on your corpse will be doing the world a favour!
yah, that’ll convince ‘em…
Being an atheist doesn’t automatically make a person immoral. Morality can exist separately from religion.
Not every atheist thinks that he can do whatever he pleases. While I do not think that anyone will go to hell for whatever crime he commited, it is still not right to kill anyone as long as its result means more harm than use.
So who decides between right and wrong?
I, obviously…
Our conscience. It’s this wonderful thing that’s built into most people’s brains that makes us feel uncomfortable when we contemplate doing bad things and guilty when we actually follow through with them. It develops through childhood, not faith, so…who decides? Our parents, primarily, I’d guess.
If you’re unfamiliar with what a conscience is, I seriously recommend looking up sociopathy and getting a psychiatric analysis on that particular issue.
Your opinion comes from one isolated instance (the killing of you’re brother)? Obviously indisputable proof that rivals that of the most extensive studies.
I find it abhorrent that religious believers are only able to hold themselves back from robbery, rape and murder because they believe in an invisible deity.
Now *that’s* immoral.
I’m sorry for your loss, but that is a very narrow minded view. That’d be like me saying all Muslims are terrorists due to 9/11 when they patently are not. There are good and bad people in all walks of life, regardless.
I can only assume you’re trolling. If you really did lose your brother to murder, you have my sincere condolences, but are you seriously advocating the notion that people only behave decently out of fear of some Divine Hall Monitor who will punish them if they step out of line? That’s just sociopathic. Morality comes from empathy and reason; religion just co-opted it. Please educate yourself before you make any more offensive blanket statements.
The guy who killed your brother did so because he was insane or just a broken, evil SoB.
Atheists generally believe that this life is all we have, and that it’s generally a Bad Thing to do anything to take something that precious away.
Don’t let one bad guy give you a stereotype of all atheists. I mean, you don’t assume all white people are bad based on the acts of the KKK, do you?
As was stated in a previous comment, this was a joke sent in to the newspaper. Go to the Snopes link.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/atheists.asp
Take a look at the trolls on the Pharyngula blog, for example. Or any of the links to the words and actions of religious believers on that blog.
This particular piece was a Poe, but there are literally millions of examples just like it which are true.
Christans believe more then anyone else that they can do whatever they want. If they do something bad, they believe that if they ask for forgiveness they will get it, no matter what they did
But if you keep doing it, you really aren’t christian at all. Athiesm is nearly the same, only there is no one to decide between right and wrong. So what makes killing people wrong then? This is the reason there are so many murders.
Your conscience is what makes it right or wrong.
If all that holds you back from killing people is fear of divine punishment, you are childish (which is acceptable if you’re a child, but your ability to use English effectively in writing suggests you are not) or sociopathic (which is also alright, but I ask that you please keep fearing divine punishment).
There’s this little thing called conscience which develops throughout your childhood, probably based on the consequences of your actions (though there’s still a lot of debate on the subject). I grew up in an agnostic envrionment that was virtually atheist, and without consideration of any divine being or the welfare of my soul, even “white lies” make me feel uncomfortable. (Is the term “white lies” still politically acceptable? It seems to be placing excessive positivity on a racially aligned color.)
even without god & religion, it can still be agreed that certain activities tend to destabilize society, so theists & atheists _should_ at least be able to agree not to kill each other and take each other’s stuff…
What Atheist’s call conscience, you call god. Same thing, different name. Clear enough?
I call Poe’s Law: it is hard to tell parodies of fundamentalism (or, more generally, any crackpot theory) from the real thing, since they both seem equally insane. So, it’s a satire fail, but only because what it wanted to satirize was pretty much this.
xton, just because atheists don’t believe in a “divine morality” doesn’t mean they are immoral. Morality, true morality, comes from the heart. You don’t do the right thing because you fear hell, or want to go to heaven, you do the right thing because it’s the right thing.
I am an atheist, and I grew up in Irealnd, a predominatly catholic country. I have never hurt anyone, or gotten into trouble, but I have seen and heard of terrible things done by people who call themselves christian. Where was their morality?
I remember hearing a story of a woman who stabbed her baby over 50 times as she slept, because the virgin mary told her to do it. Where was her morality? I will admit that what she did may have had more t do with an undiagnosed mental illness than her religion, but the fact remains, you do not need god to live a good life.
Oh right, atheists are responsible for all crimes. No crime has ever been committed in the name of organized religion. Stop projecting your issues onto other groups of people and work on your own stuff. Damn sheeple.
The funny part is, not long ago in Finland a bishop actually claimed that our freedom of religion means that everyone is eligible to get religious education in school. And he meant it quite like in the text: shove it down the kids’ throats. And naturally he didn’t see anything wrong in the fact that they usually only teach the main religion and belittle everything else. Way to go…
@xton:
That is completely untrue. Humans have a sense of social responsibility that is both instinctive and developed culturally. It has nothing to do with religion: in fact, some studies have found that self-professed Christians were more likely to steal money from a wallet that had been planted than self-professed Atheists. Crime occurs because of issues such as low intelligence or poor upbringing, not religious beliefs.
Just as I do not lump all religious people in with the author of the (fictitious) letter above, please do not assume that atheists lack a moral compass, as such an assumption is baseless and patently false.
Makes me proud to be atheist. There is a difference between faith and religion, once the two merge I too will ‘join’.
Why must a few crazy people make Alaska look totally crazy? Sarah Palin is a joke. Believe me, we’re not all insane up here.
Belief= having an opinion based on nothing much. As soon as there is anything to base your opinion on, you just DON’T NEED to believe. Remember, there were times when people believed that the Earth is flat? That was belief. Now you can go and see for yourself that it isn’t. That is knowledge. No-one BELIEVES the Earth is flat. You just KNOW. If people believed that the Earth is round, and then went and saw it for themselves, it wouldn’t change anything. Point is, they still wouldn’t BELIEVE it round, they would KNOW.
Raises questions about BELIEF in general, doesn’t it?
Knowledge is just a belief that is correct (opinion is another form of belief, one that has no truth value, but it’s not part of the definition of either knowledge or belief). Someone can believe the Earth is round, someone can believe the Earth is flat, someone can know the Earth is round, but no one can “know” that the Earth is flat, because it’s not true. Both atheists and christians can say they believe that God does/doesn’t exist, but as we have no proof either way, we don’t know which side knows the truth and which side has a false belief.
Which is exactly why it’s silly to have beliefs. If you don’t know, don’t offer an opinion. Try to find out what’s there, regardless of your preferences. It still will be out there. You will just KNOW.
Dogma: a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof / a doctrine or code of beliefs accepted as authoritative; “he believed all the Marxist dogma”
Nuff said…
Someone should explain to that moron why religion is the source of all evil.
As a Christian, I must say this woman is the reason why Christianity has bad PR. Christianity is about loving everybody (not to be confused with making love to everybody!), not kicking everybody out of the country because of different views! On top of that, atheism is, by definition, a religion too.
Atheists definitely assume that there are no gods without knowing it.
Atheism is not a religion; there is no defining creed among atheist. The only singularity is the lack of belief in a creator.
Very well put Clay, and you also beat me to it
and all other religions assume they’re is a god without knowing it
Atheism is a religion like bald is a haircolor. Or like not collecting stamps is a hobby. Idiot.
+1
Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Most of you may have already heard about that, but this made me think to that : http://www.thejaywalker.com/pages/shit_happens.html
(yeay, I know, my english grammar is weird)
Now THAT shit is funny…
“In God We Trust” on U.S. currency and “under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance didn’t happen until the 50′s. It was an over-reaction to the “red scare” that was running rampant at the time. Folks didn’t want the U.S. to be like the “godless Communists” so those things were allowed to happen. It had nothing to do with any connection to Christianity or faith or any such thing – it was about fear.
Well, it still connects the US to Christianity as those are Christian statements, no matter the reasons why they were put there.
Actually, the big 3 abrahamic faiths (christianity, judism, and islam) all worship the same god. They all use the same name for god, in different languages. Although, to the average xtian potatohead, I guess, they assume only they worship the “true god”.
Even if it was about fear, it still is a religious phrase on our money, etc, that we shouldn’t have to tolerate. Having a secular government is a Good Thing. If you don’t believe that, google “theocracy” and read up on some examples.
Actually, the Christians and Judaists worship pretty much the same God, with the exception of Christians believing that Jesus was that God and his son, that the Judaists don’t believe to be so. And then, the Muslims worship a different kind of God, very similar and with similar aspects, but all of those do worship a different god. If I remember correctly, they all have come to be from the same religion that was in Persia, called Zoroastrianism. That’s why they’re similar.
Uh, no. Christianity and Islam both grew out of Judaism. Jesus of Nazareth is recognized as a Prophet of God by the Islamic faith. The Old Testament is a valid book for all three faiths, although each leans on it with different weight. The only pertinence Zoroastrianism has here is that early Biblical translators thought it’d be a keen idea to nick the concept of Satan from that other belief system and use it to scare people into tithing to the Church and doing whatever the old white men say.
Eisenhower: “From this day forward, the millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty.”
…It had nothing to do with Christianity or faith. It was just the dedication of our nation to.. uh..
No no no. He understood it completely wrong. “Freedom from religion” doesn’t mean you’re free to pick a religion, it means you’re free FROM religion. It are the believers who’re against the rules, the atheists are completely following them as they’re not held by a religion!
When Jesus facepalmed while reading this, could he see through the holes in his hands/wrists?
high five
Ewwwwww, I hate Christians.
Oh yeah? Well I hate your attitude.
i hate people who hate people…
So you hate yourself? Ironic win… or ironic fail? I have no idea.
I don’t like it when people hate people because of their beliefs or who they are. can’t we ll just get along? no, I guess not.
Hate is something people cling to.
someone loves to be an ass on the internet
Yes, and aliens will eat your babies! Blame the Haiti earthquake on the athiests as well.
PROTIP: religions and cults are very, very, different.
The difference between a cult and a religion is whether you’re a member of it or not. If you’re a member of it, it’s a religion. If you aren’t, it’s a cult.
To a Christian, Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, etc are all cults. To me, all organized religions are cults. Some more dangerous than others.
Wouldn’t it be the exact opposite? I mean, you follow religions and religious beliefs, but you belong to a cult.
A cult, by definition, is a new religious movement. As Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and Taoism are all old religious movements, they don’t fall under that definition. The closest thing to a large scale cult today is Scientology.
Holy crap is that funny!! I can probably count the number of teeth this person has on one hand, but I’m sure it would take all fingers and toes to count their relatives in the trailer park!
all I can say is WOW! The fact that so many people actually think and feel this way is extremely disturbing.
Man im glad to be an atheist. So i dont look dumb like this lady muahaha
Even though this is satire, it’s also the way a lot of people think. I’ve met them, and they’re very unpleasant individuals. I am completely incapable of understanding them, probably because my general view of religion is that I don’t really care what you believe in so long as no one gets hurt. My basic philosophy is along the lines of “Why can’t we all just get along?”
As for myself, I am a militant agnostic: I don’t know and neither do you. I am, however, more inclined to think that there isn’t a God — but I’m sane enough to know that I can’t prove it and therefore I could be wrong.
I admit that I have a knee-jerk reaction to look down on people who believe in God, but I’m trying to curb that and I never let it affect the way I outwardly act toward people. (I think my reaction has something to do with how nasty a lot of otherwise nice people have acted toward me when they’ve asked if I’m Christian and I’ve told them no.) In fact, I will make a specific effort to get to know that person, because once I know *them* I can easily drop my initial reaction.
So I, like everyone else on the planet, have my prejudices, but I don’t let it affect the way I treat people. And I don’t understand why others can’t do the same. :/
because that requires a little bit of thought- which is a little more than some people can manage.
Thank you Shannon for publicly humiliating theists everywhere.
When did it become ok to bash people for their religion? Some of the posters here are no better than the fictional woman who wrote the letter. “I hate Christians”? Really? What about “I hate Jews”? Or “I hate Muslims”? Is that ok too? Of course not, because it’s bigotry. I am surprised the moderates have allowed this site to turn so hateful.
I haven’t personally been hurt by Jews or Muslims. These days it’s the Christians that seem to hate me the most. So why don’t I have the right to hate them back?
Exactly, if you’re Atheist, nowadays you’re most likely to be hated by christians than by any other religion
And i make sure not to be against any particular religion, but against theistic religions as a complete entity regardless
So, you justify your bigotry with the bigotry of others? Do you also assume all Muslims are terrorists because of a few extremists?
No, but that’s what you’ll think, no matter what I say. So go with it.
While you’re at it, why don’t you call me an abortion-lover, too? And, let me see, what other cards do your kind like to play…. Oh yes! Accuse me of destroying America by buying from companies that say “Happy Holidays” instead of Merry Christmas. Blame me for 9/11. Go ahead! Pat Robertson said you can, and his word is as good as God’s right?
That was awfully bigoted of you. Why would assume I think that way? You are justifying your own bigotry with the bigotry of others (yes, like Pat Robertson.)
You don’t know what I think about anything. You are just making assumptions while accusing me of making assumptions. All I did was ask a question. Why are you being so hateful?
You must really like the word bigot?
Only when it applies, and that is what this whole image is about. I don’t like being subject to hateful discrimination any more than anyone else does, and I’m justified in asking for a reason for it. “They do it too,” is not only childish, it’s a poor defense for any action or attitude. If you can’t come up with something better, perhaps you should re-evaluate your world view.
Because tone does not translate over the internet, I would like to point out that I am not angry, nor am I trying to attack anyone. I just have questions, and so far no one seems able to answer them.
Roa,
You seem to be one of the few people keeping a level head on either side of this discussion. The level of anger people are displaying is typical for this kind of subject matter, and it isn’t really neccessary. I would prefer if people of all walks of life could just leave each other alone, if not actively live and work together.
However. The fact is that there are many more Christians than there are atheists in most countries in the developed world. I believe in the US only about 3 – 10 percent of the population (the number varies depending on which study you look at) are actually atheists. I’m not say the other 90% are Christian, but the majority are.
Now, if you consider just how outnumbered atheists are, don’t you think it is more likely that it is us, rather than the numerically far superior Christians, that face the worst of the discrimination and hatred?
This letter is fake, that has been established, but the sentiments that it represents are not.
this makes me think about something to do with a pot, a kettle and the colour black
Roa:2
Mega:-1
I WANT TO STEP ON HIS FACE… SEE IF HIS “GOD” PROTECTS HIM NOW! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
If you’re an atheist, that’s fine. I don’t care. You do whatever you want. Don’t try to force your lack of faith on me.
To the above religion-bashers: Have you ever thought that perhaps your lack of faith looks as ridiculous to people with religion as religion looks to you?
With respect, and I do mean this respectfully, I have never, ever heard of an atheist trying to coerce someone to give up their faith.
I have never seen one go door to door asking people do they have a moment to talk about Darwin, or setting up evangelical book publishers, TV channels, and advertising agencies worth billions of dollars a year to promote their faith.
I’m not saying Christian don’t have a right to do that, of course they do, it’s their money, I am merely saying that in general, it tends to be theists (Christians in particular) rather than atheist who want people to convert.
iI beleive in god, thats my choice and i ahve a million and ten reason why i beleive.
But that doesnt change the fact that almost all major atrocities commited in this worlds history were in the name of god.
Most criminals that i know are in fact religious, not to say i dont know any criminals that are atheist.
But really crime is because of atheists. did i miss something here, i can understand the partial logic the idea that people who dont beleive in god may not have moral standards
In theory it sounds good but in practice it doesnt actually play out like that, most atheists are relatively good people.
And really that all that should matter, being a good person all of the faiths and creeds in this world. The diversity and everything else.
if there is an omnipotent all seeing god, then this would obviously be all part of his plan, obviously an omnipotent being wouldnt be stupid enough to create a system where only a certain segment of the population was paying homage to him
blah i wrote to much
I have to marvel at how rude people are being on both sides of the argument.
I consider myself to be agnostic. My mother is Cahtolic, and my father is Baptist. We all coexist peacefully. I am fine with them going to mass/services, saying grace at meals, etc. While I do not believe in their religions, I accept their right to them. I do NOT expect freedom FROM said religions.
Also, we agnostics/atheists may not have commandments, but we do tend to have a little something called a moral code. Generally, these are along the lines of the commandments. Most of us follow the laws laid out in our society. I don’t claim that all of us do (not by a long shot), but we are not the only ones who break the law.
Did anyone else notice that the line below the letter read “Reader keeps on fishing” That kind of seems redundant to me. Fishing for more crap to write to the editor I guess. lol
I personally thought that headline added a nice touch to the irony.
FAIL
really, really. This person must be from fox news
i like kittens!
… -Facepalm.- Oh my God. She’s a damned embarrassment to the rest of us Alaskans! Jeez… as if Sarah Palin wasn’t bad enough.
The real irony is that the First Amendment protects her freedom of speech. What a dumba$$.
Why do most people view the picture on this page?
To get a laugh.
What is the point of this entire website?
To entertain.
Now that I’ve pointed this out, leave the haterade in the kitchen, sit down, relax, and enjoy the irony in this mans stupidity. He’s funny, because he’s stupid. Stupid people are hysterical! He’s stupid because he is hateful, and if you can laugh at hate, you’re doing really well. Its when we stop hating, and start laughing at our differences that we have really gotten the hang of things.
Smile!
“His” name is Alice? Do you assume everyone is a man?
Okay then, she is an idiot. Her sex was of little consequence to the fact that she is a moron, nor was it relevant to my point. Why would you assume that I assumed everyone was male? Have I made this mistake somewhere else that you’ve picked up on? Or was this single incident enough for you to make that assumption?
(I just like that word cause it has a cuss in it btw)
Wonder who’s the bigger bigot–the type of person represented by this letter, or the atheists who say use this (obviously fake) prank letter as verification for why they hate religious people.
Do you reeeeally think that this (obviously made-up) character represents religious people as a whole? Do you really think out of the millions of Christians in the US, any one of them you see walking down the street could be just as ridiculous as this one? Don’t you think it’s more likely that people like this are outliers? Don’t you think that if I looked hard enough, I could find an equally absurdly closed-minded atheist rant?
I live in Richmond, VA, which is a fairly dangerous city. People tend to get shot on a regular basis. And you know who generally tends to do the shooting? Black people. Should I base my entire worldview upon this notion? Should I treat every black man I meet as a personal threat to my safety?
Religion is stupid. And you should treat EVERYONE like that.
Thanks. That was remarkably unhelpful.
What a beautiful world you envision.
Lamonique actually has a point, albeit poorly expressed. It’s wiser, especially in cities, and even more especially in cities that have a reputation for being dangerous, to be cautious and assume that everyone else is a potential threat to personal safety. Does this mean I suggest hiding at home with heavy weaponry and defending that home with lethal force? Hell no. I simply recommend avoiding giving offense. If you give a person no reason to harm you, even if that person is dangerous, they likely will not do so, simply because the consequence is not worth whatever they gain from doing harm. While this doesn’t work with spree killers and the like, it will work for nearly everyone else.
One flaw with your argument: those parentheticals are false. I would argue that this Alice meaning what the letter says is no less plausible than a person running for President of the US basing his campaign on “being a maverick” and relying on the popularity of a VP candidate who’s every word indicates she is not qualified for the job. And yet this happened for the 2008 elections.
(and lest I inflame any femenists, the words “she” and “not qualified for the job” of VP of the US are not correlated except when the “she” refers to someone with the intellectual capacity of Sarah Palin)
Back to your argument, this letter surely doesn’t represent religious people as a whole, simply a very small but incredibly vocal subset of religious people who never cease to annoy.
As for the absurdly closed-minded atheist rants you speak of, most of those at least apply conventional rules of logic (albeit including a few of the common logical fallacies like polarity (“if you can’t prove God exists, God does not exist”). Also the classic “God according to the Old Testament is vengeful and scary, therefore I do not want to be ruled by him, therefore he does not exist.”
Where do I fit on the spectrum of theist vs not theist? Who cares?
Atheism: 1
Religion: 0
Atheim: ∞
Religion: = <
When did this turn into a contest? And who decided that atheists are so superior. NO RELIGION IS THE SUPERIOR RELIGION.
That was badly worded. what I meant to say was that a religion cannot be superior to another religion.
i like the first one better
Agreed.
Atheism is NOT a religion. The term ‘atheist’ is misleading. Being an atheist is to not believe in any form of theism and I think anybody with any sense can see the paradox of catagorizing the non-belief of something as a belief. Simply put, if you were to continue calling atheism a religion then you are effectively calling non-religious people religious.
OK you call Theists crazy..I’m calling you an idiot for being so blind and close minded…that’s for criticizing me and being an intolerant bastard
You have stated a logical Fallacy. More than one actually. Invincible Ignorance and Hasty Generalization. This Lessons your credibility and the quality of you letter. Our society expects more.
*lessens ‘=)
This is fake this is fake this is fake please please please be fake I beg of you
It’s not fake, it’s funny as hell. there is….no real difference come to think of it…. or do you mean is the person a fake? Probably.
Gotta love how religious discussion just brings out the best in people. Atheists, Agnostics, and Christians just going at each other’s throats. I would enjoy the opportunity to discuss different ideas with people, but sadly, the internet has become a place of anonymity where you’re free to hate each other because of these things.
i hate you because you don’t have an avatar
(i hope it’s clear i’m being facetious)
I’m not hating anyone… I am enjoying philosophical debate. Some people are actually bringing up very valid issues, atheists and theists alike (although the majority of debate is coming from the atheist “side”). I myself am an atheist.
Wait, I am not going ANYWHERE! I’m an Atheist and PROUD OF IT!
Hear Hear!
No amount of web discussion is suddenly going to make me believe in a fictional being from a storybook
I’m a christian but this is just a big fail >.< i cant stand people like that
PLEASE let here be a redneck it would fill the stereotype so well!
btw dont wanna get historical but religion is one a the big reasons of exermination and killing in history even today….
Agreed, tbh.
If one doesn’t answer to God, who do they answer to? What stops them from doing wrong when they want to? That’s what keeps ME from doing wrong.
What is “Right” and “Wrong” is all a matter of perception. Which means, someone unbound by a strong set of ideals they hold COULD, in fact, edit their thinking to suit their needs. People do it all the time.
Athiests = Scary.
people can do that whether they believe in a god or not.
many years ago, one of my catholic friends broke into an office and stole a computer. He couldn’t take it home, his parents would ask him where he got it, so he wanted me to buy it from him. Presumably, he thought I would because I was an atheist and thus would have no problem with it. I said no. And not only did I say no, but I proceeded to tell him why, least of all that I did not want to be guilty of receiving stolen property, but even more because it was such a rotten thing to do- his opinion was it was a business, so they could afford the loss (this was back in the day when a good business PC could cost upwards of $2500) – I pointed out that there was not only the cost of the hardware, but a fair amount of software (also before business PCs came bundled with everything under the sun), not to mention the business’s own data that was more than likely irreplaceable (again, in those days the cost of equipment and storage made routine backups infeasible to most small businesses) – his response was, “wow, you’re pretty moral for an atheist”
had i been a little quicker on the draw, i might have responded, “no, you’re pretty immoral for a theist.” as it was, i just shook my head and laughed…
This has got to be a joke right? You have it all backwards, what stops YOU from doing wrong when you want to? The word of god, right? Well, what right has the word of man got to interfere with the word of god?
When a Christian decides to blow up an abortion clinic, or go on a holy crusade, or beat up or murder a homosexual, they are CONVINCED that they are following the word of god. They may have misinterpreted it, but that is what they genuinely believe.
They are the dangerous ones, they are the ones that are frightening, because the only thing that is controlling their morality is some vauge idea of right and wrong that comes from a 2000 year old tome.
Secondly, if you are doing the right thing because you want to go to heaven, and avoiding doing the wrong thing because you fear hell, that’s not true morality. True morality is doing the right thing because it’s the right thing. The vast majority of Atheist and Christians are law-abiding, decent people, but an Atheist does the right thing on their own, they don’t need the thought of heaven or hell to motivate them.
Just because people don’t get their morality from the same place you do, doesn’t mean it is less valid.
This is a very good interpretation of what the differences of morality in theists and atheists.
I believe that hell-fearing theists are very selfish. They only do things they believe are right because they want to get into “heaven.” When they help someone, when they prevent a crime, when they donate to charity, they only do this for themselves and their own desires.
I am an atheist so does that automatically mean I’m going to be a slut and get pregnant out of high school, not get into college, murder, steal, and commit suicide to end myself? No, because I have an internal moral system.
Christians and other theists who behave like that are conveniently ignoring their own scriptures; each and every one of the world’s major religions teach that you cannot buy your way into Heaven; you can’t purchase karma, you can’t curry favor with God by kissing up to poor folks. Doesn’t work that way.
Seriously the only thing that keeps you from murdering children is god? To me, that is scary. Way scarier than any atheist could ever be. Atheists don’t scare me, spiders do.
now spiders are creepy 8 legged monsters
The only thing that keeps you from harming others is the threat of punishment? Then you’re a sociopath. I’m an atheist and I don’t harm others because I have empathy, and I understand that living among other humans requires a basic respect and concern for the well-being of others. I have very strongly-held ideals; they just don’t hinge on unevidenced assumptions about magical beings.
You = scary.
People who need a Deity to tell them what’s right and wrong, and otherwise they’d go rape babies and kill puppies and kittens just because it’s fun, are FAR, FAR SCARIER than anything *you* can imagine.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/atheists.asp
You beat me to it. Why are people so gullible?
I think a much worse source of crime is bad grammar. I know that when I read a poorly phrased letter like this one, my keenest desire is to beat the crap out of whoever wrote it.
wow. just wow. my only response to the picture is win on the subtle irony.
well tht aint very nice…im atheist… 3:= …interwebz make happy bunny sad
Satire, gotta love it.
I’ve read all the comments and have gathered that this article is fake, but that does not mean that people don’t think this way. They do. Even though I’m a freshman in high school, my geography class last semester made me angry. You would think a bunch of 14 year olds wouldn’t care about these things, but they do. My best friend is atheist, and I really don’t care either way. She is still my best friend. But some people, such as those in my geography class, think atheists are evil. Seriously? My best friend is nicer than me most of the time, and I consider myself Christian. They also think that if you’re Muslim, you’re going to blow up the world, and if you’re black, you do drugs and kill people in gangs. No! It’s bigots like them that drive me crazy and I almost wanted to go to the prinicipal about it because we watched a video on South America and they laughed at all those people who actually have to WORK for their things and called them “beaners”. Ok, one, they were in ARGENTINA, not Mexico, and two, “beaners” is an extremely offensive word, and three, there was a boy in my class who is of Mexican heritage, and he seemed a little angry at this. My best friend and I yelled at those boys to quit being racist because they were offending the Mexican boy and us as well. What did the teacher do? Nothing. My friend and I were extremely mad. You’re probably wondering what this has to do with religion. It kind of has a lot to do with it, actually. I don’t care if people are atheist, or Hindu (actually a beautiful religion, studied it in 6th grade for social studies), Muslim, or Buddhist. They’re still people. And yes, I would like to go to heaven when I die, and yes I do beg for forgiveness when I do wrong, but I don’t shove it down other people’s throats and think that if you don’t believe in God you should leave the U.S., no, our country is about variety and freedom. You can believe whatever, but I’ll believe what I believe. People that think otherwise are crazy.
I like how the next title just seems to be an answer to the previous one…
God and Satan are the same being.
It’s funny how you “atheists” are thanking God for being atheists.
Oh main that article is just like rain on your wedding day.
They’re ON our country??
I wonder how Jesus feels about that lady’s letter?
Thank you to duh, for pointing this out. Still, even if the article is fake, it still brings up a valid point. To all those who think this country was founded on religion, please consider the following:
“It does no injury to me to know that my neighbor believes in twenty gods or no god.”
-Thomas Jefferson.
I googled Soldotna… it’s in Alaska. I think this is ghostwritten by Sarah Palin. Very clever, Alice Shannon, very clever…
Monotheism and intolerance – now there’s two concepts that are one and the same.
I think is what is called “black propaganda”, ie, something written by the opposite side than what it appears, for the purpose of making the writer’s apparent cause seem foolish. Further, the warped stereotype portrayed is more typical of what leftist progressives conceive Christians to be, rather than what they really are.
Finally, in response to a few of the bigoted hate-speech category remarks above: more people were guilloitined in one week of The Terror of the French Revolution than in 300 years of the Spanish Inquisition; there’s the triumph of reason and rationality for you. Che Guevara personally ordered the murders of almost as many as the Inquisitors, and accomplished that in less than a year [he murdered only a few people personally, usually men and boys who were hogtied and had already been beaten so badly they couldn't stand up.] And since 1917, a little more than a century, Marxism worldwide has murdered 75 million people — some estimates go as high a 100 million. Between the KGB and the Spanish Inquisition . . . thanks ,I’ll take my chances with the Inquisition.
Her spelling is surprisingly good, considering what a complete moron she is.
This must be the Alice who featured in Wonderland! She says – quote:-
“Our currency even says in God we trust.”
That being the case, it’s no bleedin’ wonder you keep getting financial crashes.
It also explains what happened to the Gold Standard – some silly god-botherer knocked the ‘ell out of it!
no, we got rid of the gold standard so we could print more money- and we were printing money by then, have been since the 1800s- so that we could pay off a loan the French gave us- we didn’t have enough Gold to pay for it, so we said ‘ the paper is legal tender, gold doesn’t matter.’
us history class- 1
why is it that when an american quotes the constitution in an argument against atheists they forget to remember that it says (im paraphrasing as im not american and not forced to learn it) that neither God nor religion will play a part in the governing of the country. The founding fathers intended the american government to be free of religion as they were sick of the way in britain that religion caused the passing of some inhumane and downright silly laws. The freedom of religion part was included to show that anybody could believe what they want but that the running of the country and its laws were still to be free of religion (though america has failed on that front). Anybody who quotes the constitution is a hypocrite and a fool. rant over
*anybody who quotes the constitution in an argument against atheism
i myself am a christian, and we’re not supposed to judge but we all know no one’s perfect so here’s my opinion. for every comment on here, be it christian or atheist or anything. it is all pointless, christian’s can’t change the beliefs of firm non-believers and non believers can’t change firm believers. quit arguing. simple little things like this bulletin are just the same as people fighting wars over differences of belief except we’re not killing each other. seriously, who cares what other people believe? you got what you believe, it’s your life, believe as you please. i believe in God but i’m not going to say someone who doesn’t is any better or worse than i am. God gave us a choice, believe or not. what someone believes does not make one bit of difference to someone else other than yourself. so once again, quit arguing, even saying this to fellow christians, preaching till your blue in the face makes about as good of difference as not saying anything. the debate will never end while the world exists. and people just waste to much time trying to prove a personal point.
one other thing to say to christian’s following my last message. if any of you think i’m in the wrong for saying you shouldn’t preach and to just not say anything. go back to the crucifiction of christ. he didn’t say anything…and i may be wrong, but if he did try to explain himself he probably would have prolonged the torment. now relate that to yourself. keeping your silence saves you the trouble of getting into this pointless debate, and it also saves the trouble of being offended. christ had a one track mind while getting crucified. to do what had to be done and remain faithful. for christians the same should apply. move forward and look straight. don’t get side tracked. as for the athiests reading this, same goes for you. you may not believe in christ but seriously of the thousands of things you could be doing online why spend time arguing. if you want to be heard thats cool. thats not the problem. the problems begin when someone gets offended and wants to bitch at someone. and i feel for you all who got offended by the article saying if don’t believe in God pack your shit and get out of the country or your the leading cause for crime. thats just not cool and i myself don’t even believe a true christian would say that. a religious fanatic might. there is a difference. anyway i’ve got no problem with athiests. i have friends who are athiest including my best friend since we were in 5th grade. i’m just trying to get people to see that no matter what your belief is, what race you are, background, ect. the world would be a much better place to live for everyone if we didn’t fight over differences. just live life and be yourself. anyway peace out everyone i’m done babbeling.
You should all check out the story behind Pastafarianism. It’s really great.
You would think someone who feels so passionately about this would be willing to proofread his letter.
We are all atheists when it comes to most of the gods humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
Personally I think we just need to round up ALL fanatics and people who do ridiculous and/or horrible things in the name of ANY religion (or non-religion, for that matter) and ship them off somewhere to battle it out amongst themselves.
As someone who has experimented with and very much read into a lot of different faiths, I don’t understand the driving force behind the need to attack other people’s faiths. I am equally opposed to “believers,” atheists, and/or anyone in between shoving their “My way is the right and only way, and anything different is wrong and farcical” down anyone else’s gullet. Faith is personal, so stop spitting this venomous malarkey at people. Your way is right for you. That is all it needs to be. Leave everyone else alone- their beliefs don’t affect you. Play nice, or you’re all getting a time out. And no cookies.
Amen to that Brother! (Or Sister)
“Keep thy religion to thyself.”
-George Carlin
God people like this need to be slapped -.-
This is a hoax… What’s really sad is that there have been a few dozen people who have sent this article into their own local newspapers under their own names…
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/atheists.asp
Athiest are welcom in aus
Why did the editor even print that in the paper?
wow. what a backwoods hillbilly in-bred throwback. amazing. i just have one question: who did this idiot pay to get so high on the food chain?
Ah, leave it to an article by a misguided Christian to bring out the atheists on their high horse. It’s amazing that no matter how immature a Christian can make himself/herself look, there’s always 1,000 atheists to try to top them. Congratulations.
Oh, this is great! After further review, I see it’s not even real. It’s a freakin’ joke by someone who probably is an atheist herself. Once again, congratulations atheists for giving me and countless other Christians some entertainment. You’re just a bunch of intolerant hypocrites.
I honestly think Christians have the monopoly on intolerance…
The guy is an idiot, He’s trampling the first amendment for those who chose not to believe, and yet he is protected by it to say what he says. He’s a moron. I have the right to say that under the first amendment of the constitution.
I ave a bron dog se llama Pistacha she like toast she is aganosti
This made me really happy for some reason…thanks =)
LMAO there really isnt anything to say but laugh at tools like this……..
An Atheist’s Prayer -
Dear Lord, please protect me from your followers.
you don’t have enough faith to be an athiest
It was funny scrolling through these pictures and noting the number of comments: 13, 25, 14, 40, etc. Then I came across the pic with the atheist reference and 321 comments. Instantly I knew: religious debate!
No where in the Constitution does it state that one has to believe in anything, so I’m pretty sure that Atheism is protected as well. Being that we live in America, the country of the best and brightest, I can’t believe anyone would state anything this ignorant so I am going to laud this as brilliant satire.
“I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent.”
Thomas Jefferson.
Atheists are pathetic 40 year old white guys with tiny members, who live with their mother. How appealing.
…….See what I did here? I did exactly what this Alice did: ignite passions for the sake of argument. It is WAAAAAY too easy.
yep, it isn’t as if hyper religious people ever do anything wrong- all th ‘witches’ they killed were, uh, um… well, it’s not like priests abuse innocent little boys.. right?… right? and the religious people in MO who said’ screw the first amendment’ and make it legal to kill Mormons- nothing wrong with that- not a crime to lock all the young men in that mill and burn them alive. and lets not forget slavery.
( end sarcasm here.)
this lady has some issues.
How f****ng stupid can you be?
Lets hope next time she leaves a home adress or something.
Bullshit. Athiesm should be allowed, and they need to take “one nation, under God” thing out… its ethicist.
“I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies.”
-Benjamin Franklin
“Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologies.”
-Thomas Jefferson
Goodbye to our most beloved founding fathers; goodbye to America…
as an Atheist I am… amused, this shit is so sad it is hilarious. I LoL hard, real hard.
silly pathetic humans
Whew! I just finished reading all this. Is anyone else here hungry?
Fuck you Alice Shannon Soldotna. I’m an atheist, and the only crime I will ever commit is beating your face in if I ever meet you for insulting me like you just did. Fucking stupid ass.
Although I think it is hilarious that you are that retarded. Idiot.
God says atheist are right!
Perhaps I should just keep my trap shut…but I feel the need to comment here.
First off, as a Christian myself, I want to apologize for the intolerance, idiocy, and un-Christian attitudes that have been displayed by “Christians” for almost as long as there has been a Church. Way too many of us (myself included some days…heck…many days!) just miss the point. We get so worried about making everybody “moral”, we forget that the message of the cross was not “be good enough to get into heaven”, but that nobody, not even Christians, are perfect. Only Jesus was perfect. We forget that, and get on our high-horses, and we end up making a fool of our Savior in the process.
That having been said, the solution is not for us to be silent. If Jesus really came to save souls, and I believe He did, then Christians have an obligation to speak the Gospel. Of course, we unfortunately extend that obligation to include our own opinions WAAAAAY too often. But if the Gospel is a matter of life and death, we’d be selfish not to share it with everyone we can.
Maybe it’s a good thing the church is loosing it’s power and influence in this world. We’ve done nothing but abuse it anyway (Crusades, Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials, etc, etc). When Jesus Himself said that those would seek to be great in His Kingdom must be the servants of everyone else. Because His kingdom isn’t based on power and strength, but on love.
Forgive us when we forget that, to disastrous, and yes often murderous, consequences. Our sins put Jesus on that cross just as much as everybody else’s. I’m not ashamed of the Gospel. But I’m frequently ashamed of Christians. And yes, I’m frequently ashamed of myself too. Anytime I shoot off my mouth, and make Jesus look bad. Again.
There’s a God that loves you enough to come and die for you. Maybe you’d be more willing to believe that if us Christians were willing to do the same, rather than telling you to get off “our” land. But give Him a chance anyway, will you?
OK, I’m done.
Thanks for that, man. It’s a relief to read something thought out, considerate and down to earth at the bottom of THAT rampage of… human weirdness. I still don’t believe in God, but I have a whole lot of respect for you
I would like to complement you, David, and Trey as well, for the most evocative & levelheaded responses I saw to this inflammatory troll-like post.
There were responses from atheists disagreeing with the vitriol and insensitivity portrayed by their angry “brethren”, but they didn’t express their dissatisfaction nearly as eloquently as did the two of you. Nicely done.
My only two cents are my encouragement that we work together to create a respectful, thoughtful & forward-thinking future for the world. Clearly MOST OF US have more similarities than differences than would be apparent by the conversation above. And history has taught us … if we allow those with few morals to divide those of us who are willing to work for a better world by merely provoking us to anger and hate with a few words … we have no hope no matter how strong our desire.
*atheist*
PS if you find yourself reading a few words strung together in such a way that you become angry, and, while purporting to subscribe to world view based on freedom, you decide to resort to violent threats & hateful thoughts, I have to conclude that you have a little more thinking to do – else, you will be just a sheep.
what a load of bullshit.
Care for some sweeping generalizations, anyone?
I’m laughing for two reasons. One because this lady is out there. And two, because this article is from Alaska where I’m from. She must be a friend of Palin.
The brilliancy of this text tell’s exactly why religion is so important to the mind developing of mankind. Freedom only for believe is essential for all mankind to be believers, but being free for not believing means the end, with enough time, of this auto replicating cycle of faith. Stop!
Um, help me understand your meaning here. If I am reading this correctly, you believe religion is essential to human development, but hen becomes a self-replicating cycle that needs stopped? I’m not following you tran of thought here. Can you flesh it out a little? Thanks.
I think that her statement of “get off our country” sums up that she is an idiot
I guess she forgot about the priests and the small choir boys…
No atheists? How about Muslims?
…and they wonder why church attendance is down… -.-
Seriously? Was this country not founded on the basis of religious tolerance and freedom? (I can’t help but view Atheism as a religion, since it is a view on spiritual matters, even if it is rejecting them).
Our money says, “In God we Trust” because that is what our founding fathers believed in. If nothing else, we should keep that phrase for its historical significance. Children should be allowed to pray in school (if they wish), but not forced to (freedom of choice).
And how exactly are atheists responsible for crime?! Given that the majority of our nation’s populace identifies iteself as Christian, don’t Christians commit far more crimes? Being “holy” doesn’t make you without sin, it just means you repent to God (hopefully).
…sorry for the rant -.-; couldn’t help it.
fuck alice shannon.
it’s dumb-asses like her that deserve to be kicked off of the states for not even understanding a simple thing like freedom of and FROM religions.
Just a reminder, kids…they figured out this was a spoof…
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/atheists.asp
and
http://peninsulaclarion.com/stories/030907/oped_0309ope001.shtml
This is incredible how believers defend a book they didn’t write.
Why not? If it’s something you believe in, whether it be freedom, democracy, Christ, Allah, heck, Star Wars vs Star Trek, whatever, then it’s worth defending in some form or fashion, at least verbally/textually.
*highfives David*
*highfives back*
If only Star Trek were a religion, I’d be so there!
As if we didn’t need more proof, the “letter to the editor” posted above and most of the comments since certainly help reinforce my sense of the impending Idiocracy to come. It’s really sad to see so many who can’t be bothered to take a small amount of time just to clearly read what is written or perform some simple math to check the numbers.
This society is so going to wind up with a president named Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Hector Camacho. Just remember, it’s got electrolytes!
I show my sincere respect ofr eveybod on this page that wrote intelligent, methodical, christian posts on this page, and my utter disgust for those who wrote stuff like ‘Ewwwww I hate christians.”
I am a Christian, and hold all religion (Except Scientology. I just can’t take aliens seriously.) with respect. I don’t hold them as true, but I respect them. While I don’t agree with atheists, I don’t hate them. I don’t hold them responsible for crime. If that’s what they want to believe, that’ fine. The only people I think should get kicked out of this country is Fred Phelps and his band of lunatics. They go around, spreading their own views, and claim it to be God’s word. That simply disgusts me. I don’t hate them, but I personally hope that they get what they deserve.
You just said you hold all religion except Scientology with respect, and then you bashed Fred Phelps. That’s a religion too, dearie.
However hypocrisy isn’t so I guess you’re safe ^^
What the Phelps crowd follows is a deliberate perversion of religion, just as bin Laden adheres to his own highly-selective reading of Islam. Neither of them deserve any form of respect.
I’m not saying they do or do not deserve respect. I’m saying DF just contradicted him/herself. I honestly couldn’t care less who worships what; there are people who worship duct tape. My point is that if someone is going to justify themselves, they should do it correctly.
so.. everybody that isnt christian should get out of the united states? i think thats what it meant by “freedom of religion” lol…
I’m a half-assed pagan with a Presbyterian upbringing and Wiccan/Taoist tendencies…am I screwed or not? I can’t tell…
Logic is atheist blasphemy! Blind faith is a million times more useful than science or mathematics!
Can I assume this is sarcasm? Because it’s freakishly out of line with most of Christian history. Logic was a regular tool in the apologist’s arsenal for generations. Anti-intellectualism comes and goes in waves, but such an argument against “logic” and “science” is a fairly modern concept, with the rise of modern atheism. Theology was known in the middle ages as the Queen of the Sciences. Science, after all, simply means knowledge.
Anyway, you were probably being sarcastic, or…dare I say…ironic?
And women are property too! In fact I should be killed because I can read and wr– *dies*
(yes this is indeed sarcasm for those who can’t tell.)
I have respect for many Christians but not for those that assume that without religion comes crime. Atheism may not technically be a religion but it is a belief that should be considered as important as any.
I worship the god Baphomet, to whom I dedicate a human child sacrifice each month. I’m glad these new policies will rid us of those evil Godless atheists!
if there the christians had the country to themselves, they would go crazy because there wouldn’t be any sinners left to nag. but they all insist they’re right, so the baptists, lutherans, catholics, mormons, pentacostals, etc would all end up killing each other. not joking, I’m sure that’s what would happen.
I am an atheist, and normally I respect other people’s religions but when they shove it in my face like this I get pretty pissed. WE do not cause the crimes, people pushing their religions on other people cause the crimes! If we could all just peacefully co-exist and not try to force our religions on people (yeah right, like that will ever happen) perhaps we wouldn’t have as many hate crimes. :3
I’m pretty sure that 98% of crimes are committed by people who breathe. That seems to be the common factor. I’m still trying to figure out the other 2%, but I think the statistical variation of +-4% probably accounts for that.
Aya, and others, flesh out for me what you mean by “forcing our religions on people.” I can fill in the big concepts (crusades, inquisition, mandatory Lord’s Prayer in schools), but what else does that mean to you? I’d just like to understand better. Thanks!
I think we’re going in the wrong direction to try and figure our whether theists or atheists commit more crimes. I’m not even sure pinning the blame on “forcing religion” is a good path either. I think the terms we are talking in are just too vague. There’s something deeper at work behind wrong-doing. I think, at a fundamental level, the problem is me. Well, not me personally for all crimes everywhere, but “me” in the sense of the moments in which “me myself and I” is all we are concerned about. When we want what we want and to heck with anyone else. This can be done with or without religious terminology applied to it. It can be done by the religious and the non-religious alike. And although our faith promises that God will always provide the believer a way to escape from temptation to look out for “me,” we Christians don’t always choose correctly.
Perhaps that’s why Jesus taught that loving God with all our being and loving our neighbor as ourself (which *probably* means not killing them if they believe differently than us, eh?) was the backbone of all holiness. Because it get’s the focus off of “me”, and serves the person across from you, no matter how different from you they are. THAT’s true Christianity, ultimately shown in the self-sacrifice of the Savior, the best demonstration of that love ever.
after reading this…
imma just keep fishing…
I find this offending.
I am a Christian but am appalled by this article! This is not the love that God teaches about in the Bible. Please do not judge Christians by offensive words of someone claming to be religious. This is not how the majority of Christians feel. This is one ignorant human being spewing hatred.
I also don’t get how they say that not all atheists commit crimes but that crimes are caused by them?!?! What? They are completely contradicting themselves. No one group causes crime. As human beings, we are all sinners. Yes, even *gasp* Christians have been known to commit crimes!
Its people like this who need to be shot, lol. God was used by BUSH to destroy this economy, and all of there Jesus loving people are the worst for this world. I dont like religious poeple that go to extreme on this GOD person that DOESNT EXIST. IT WAS CREATED BY MAN TO CONTROL MAN.
You are of course entitled to your opinion on the matter, but just because someone misuses the name of a particular deity to control others (because, let’s face it, religion is a pretty personal and close to the heart thing for a lot of people, and those things can be open doors for manipulation) doesn’t mean said deity does not exist. Even in the Judeo-Christian Scriptures, you have individuals (false prophets being the most notable) who utilize the name of God for their own gain, and others who are legitimately hearing from God to lead the people in the right direction.
The love of God was also the motivation for the United Methodist Committee on Relief (http://UMCOR.org) and many other Christian relief organizations to go into places like New Orleans, Haiti, and Chile after their respective disasters, and begin rebuilding. And because UMCOR is completely funded by regular plate giving at United Methodist churches, every dime donated for relief efforts went straight to rebuilding and helping people, not salaries or mail-outs. There’s religion doing some good in the world, eh? Try saying that about FEMA.
This article (which, BTW, was a joke…look it up on Snopes.com) is not representative of Christian teaching, nor the majority of Christians (although I’m certain we could probably find a few this ignorant in any religion…or Lions Club…or the Coast Guard…or AAA members…or any group…). The central commands of our faith are to love God with every fiber of our being, and to love *every* person, even those we would consider “enemies”, as much if not more than we love ourselves. Hatred is a betrayal of that faith, no matter how “justifiable” it may seem. (Luke 10:25-37, where the religious guys get schooled in love by the “outcast” Samaritan)
The thing that boggles my mind is the number of sub-groups in each religion. For example there are over 167 different sects/sub-groups under the Christianity name tag. Each one revers the same god but most consider the others way of interpreting the bible as wrong. So if all those groups can’t agree on one basic interpretation then who is right? Confusing as hell in my opinion.
Not every group assumes that the others are completely wrong (and 167 seems low, to be honest! I know of at least 15 that have Methodist in the name, and 24 with Baptist). In fact, I think many of the differences are not nearly as divisive as they once were say even 50 years ago. I’m United Methodist myself, and I’ve been a part of successful ministries with Baptists, Mennonites, Nazarenes, Presbyterians, charismatics, and all other manner of Christians.
The thing you look for is what we (mostly) have in common, which is the death and resurrection of Jesus. That’s the crucial bit, anyway. What Bible translation to use, how to baptize, what music you worship with, that’s all matters of preference, and different personalities and cultures looking at the same evidence. And each group, due to it’s history, will emphasize different aspects of the same Gospel. Calvinists stress God’s sovereignty, Arminians stress human freedom, both of which are true. Baptists *tend* to emphasize witnessing, Methodists social action, Catholics history and tradition, etc. Some differences are even remnants of linguistic differences which made meeting together impossible.
The truth is found in bringing all the various strands together, and putting together a whole picture from there, much like reconstructing a crime from various eye witness accounts, plus DNA, ballistics, etc. One piece of evidence may not tell the whole story by itself. And the different vantage points, biases, and personalities of the witnesses will make their stories different, even though they all witnessed the same event.
The same is true of the various sub-groups. Luther, Calvin, Wesley, Knox, etc, were all very different men, and their respective movements emphasized different parts of the same Gospel. And latter generations, for the same reasons, have added their own perspective to the shape of these movements, sometimes to the point where they seem to become incompatible with the parent group, and go off on their own.
None of this negates the truth of the matter. It only emphasizes that the truth belongs to God alone, and not to any one man or woman.
What sad is my sister agree’s with this… in her mind christina is the only religion.. everyone else should die.. waht she does not know is that im wiccan
David M had the best response….. and as the title of the next letter says “Let’s just keep fishing” for reasons and excuses to make ourselves feel like any of this even matters
Ahhhh there… now I fell better LOL
*came in just to read the comments as they are more lol-worthy than the posted pic itself, humanity really is an ironic thing, don’t you agree? too bad posting the whole humanity would probably clog the internet on a world wide scale and render this global, borderless world where sharing is caring and we must all be tolerant and understanding, useless. the horror*
*cue song: I love you, you love me, we’re a happy family…~*
Says the intolerant woman ranting on everyone. aaaand to get technical religion is a massive reason for crime, IM not slamming just a mild observation. Its alway, god told me to do it, god made me slaughter my family and friend blah blah blah, its an excuse and to make another point, this womans religion is also an invader, native americans were here first, thus, her argument is invalid….im a pagan, and i dont go that far. sheesh. Im for anyone and anything, (as long as it doesnt involve murdering people -_-) and they say other religions are barbaric…maybe shes just pissed off about the altar boy down the street who was molested by the priest for 10 years….hmmm….
OK, (1) This was a prank. Check on Snopes.
(2) While there are certainly many famous examples of “God told me to kill my kids” or the like, it is a far logical leap to go from that to “religion is a massive reason for crime.” Many of these cases involve mental illness, and in a predominantly monotheistic culture, it is not out of the realm of understanding that someone would incorrectly interpret voices in their head as God. And within the Christian understanding of things, God is not the only voice which attempts to speak to humans, which is why we are called to weigh out what we hear vs what we know of God. Hence Paul telling the Galatians that they will recognize the impulses of the Holy Spirit, because they produce love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. No where in there is murder, etc. Someone who believes that God told them to murder their family (OK, Abraham being the exception, but you’ll notice that God kept him from finishing the job) is clearly hearing a voice other than His.
(3) Yup, the Native Americans were here first. That does invalidate her argument. It also raises some interesting questions about immigration, if you think about it!
So the voice of God is the good things and not the bad things? What about the neutral things? I ask because I hear voices in my head, too, but they never say anything exciting. It just sounds like snippets of conversation from another room..
My point is it takes some discernment. Some voices are just you.
Somethings have natural explanations, some supernatural.
I don’t get why this is ironic. Could someone clear that up for me, please?
Christians are taught to love the sinner but not the sin. Say for example your best friend does something wrong; you still love them just not their decision. Christians are told to extend that to everyone. This lady obviously missed that Sunday school lesson.
This woman is crazy. I am a Baptist, and I believe atheists have the right to believe in their nothing – just as much as I have the right to believe in my something. Atheism may not be classified as a religion, but I think the founding fathers were trying to say – stay out of my religion and I’ll stay out of yours. The fact that God is mentioned in so much of our documents, coins and so forth is because most of our founding fathers were Christian. But they also recognized a persons right to free will. This lady is bonkers and give good Christians a bad name.
I’m a Christian and even i think this woman is crazy…
HAIL SATAN!
Yikes, this woman is from my hometown.
Um. Why has this become such an issue? People have diffrent view points, its something I would hope adults would have realised is a part of life. I find it amazing that most of the population has to have some sort of negative view point of another persons belief to the point were they must lash out at that person. BUT! I get how people feel on both sides, the whole religion thing is a touchy subject that people hold strong feelings for. Instead of being outragious I think it would be more proficiant to listen to both points of view and then consider the other before lashing out and saying its wrong. I myself have my own beliefs, everyone does. I just chose to listen before I decided. Personally I feel that its entirely possible that god created humans, animals, and plants, and then gave us the ability to evolve and adapt to our changing world. Whats really cute about all this is that this woman believes she can blame everything on one group of people. Isn’t that sort of what Hitler did with the Jews? Who knows! Im just a young adult with a mostly clear and healthy mind about the world, and I may or may not have taken all honors in my history classes so I could be completely wrong about Hitler anyway! Just saying though, Im pretty sure its the same type of thing. ^w^
Blame shifting has been a part of human history for millenia. The Roman persecution of Christians under Nero started in large part because Nero blamed them for the great fire in Rome. And under (rubbing temples trying to remember names) Diocletian (I think…), persecution started because of a pagan ceremony of divination through animal livers (a common Roman practice) where several Christians were seen making the sign of the Cross, and the auspices turned out badly. The Christians were blamed, and one of the most targeted outbreaks of Roman persecution soon followed.
Then again, not unlike what this woman was supposedly proposing (again…this has been proved to be a “joke,” not an actual pissed-off-Christian), the Jews were told in 1492 that they had to convert to Christianity, or get off Spanish soil. Hence the fortunate timing of Christopher Columbus’ expedition to find India. He spent the night before they left on his boat because he too was Jewish, and could not be on Spanish “soil” that next morning!
Sadly, too many Christians forget that we were once the ones who were at best barely tolerated, and at worst forced at point of sword to recant. I believe the message of salvation is contained within the Judeo-Christian Scriptures. But I do not believe that the solution is to force everyone to believe it or leave/die/whatever. If the greatest witness to the early church was that the early believers were willing to die painfully and violently rather than give up their belief in Christ, to the point where the Greek word for “witness”, martus, was applied to them, and gives us our word Martyr today, then what business do we have forcing others into the same position. None.
Atheism IS technically a religion because atheists BELIEVE that there is no God(s), and you (Alice Shannon) said you must BELIEVE. Plus, Alice claimed they’ve taken prayer out of schools and practicing “evil”, and that they’re the reason crimes are rampant. HELLO? You got 3 things wrong just in the last sentence – 1) Atheism isn’t about evil at all, 2) Atheism has NOTHING to do with crimes, and 3) prayer in school is WRONG (in my opinion, it’s because prayer in school “trains” kids into a particular religion when the freedom of religion “bans” that), and Atheists had NOTHING to do with that!
My middle finger is raised in your presence. In other words, F*** you, Alice.
Also, try saying that to my dad. He’d probably punch your god **** face in.
how can someone be so dumb?
How is this ironic? This is just sad and dumb.
@CheezburgerFanatic:
yes its also as you said (freedom of religion “bans” that)
but even if was that was cause of Athiests, that time not spend o nprayer ggoes to lessons, so basicly she calls learning evil.
2 atheism isnt a relgion, atheism means not believing in any gods, nothing more.
@The Writer:
Listening to 2(or more) sides of story/subect is good but this part*I feel that its entirely possible that god…* Athiests allready listen and done and have come to the conclusion there is no God, so as to HE created cant realy be cause to us HE doesnt and never did excist.
@Zanne:
Respect for what you said. I have to admit sometimes i do have harse words about all thiests, but when all said and done, i do not belife all thiests are bad/dumb/ectect each has the right to life belife and do as he wants long as it doesnt harm or delibertly annoy and ectect(bad things) to others
As for this woman.. ahwell there out there, amoung each relgion and even idiots like this among Atiests
Toh for all of you can i recomand to go to youtube and search “atheist experience”. for those that dont know it its a small TV show in US of a bunch of atheist experience wich can be called life and talk/argue about things its realy quite intresting athiests or thiests alike
OMGOODNESS!!! This is exactly why Christians have such a bad name! What happened to God’s grace? What happened to loving your neighbor as you love yourself (which is the greatest commandment according to Jesus)? This person is off their rocker.
To all the atheists out there: I apologize on this persons behalf. That is not what a true Christian is about at all.
People that guard their Bible with a shotgun. Gotta love ‘em.
I think that lady is completly right! All atheists should leave America, its completly fucked up there.
Hey, atheists, don’t think that everyone who has a religion is like that. I’m Christian, and I think that everyone has a right to believe in whatever they want.
Hello there,
I’m an atheist, and I believe that everyone has the right to believe in whatever they want to believe. I don’t wish that everyone was atheist just as I wish that not everyone was religious. What I want is a world where we can all believe in whatever we want, and do so PEACEFULLY.
Unfortunately that’s never going to happen so….oh well.
I’m atheist and I found this to be very offensive… and freedom of religion doesn’t mean you have to be religious, it’s the freedom to to belive in god or not if you choose.
The second part of the first sentence in the last paragraph is true!
But we can still fish! Just keep fishing.
I am Christian and this is retarded. Everyone from every religion (or lack there of) has the right to be in America. Deal with it.